the caring club?

[Doberman]

It's been in the press and the club have offered alternatives.
The pressing matter is a clearly disabled person wants to sit in an area where it would cause problems in an emergency.
People would have to climb over him to get out, and he wouldn't be able to evacuate without being carried by the sounds of it.

aye. He can walk from seat to toilet and back but in the case of emergency would just be sat there scratching his head waiting to be moved unable to evacuate the stadium and having folk climb over him. There are various degrees of mobility or lack of it. It's not black and white you either can walk or can't walk.

If I was the OP (or the OP's dad) I'd find your posts rather offensive tbh.

Haven't read the rest of the thread because this post wound me up.

 

[Frosty Kempes]

y


we were given a pass for the orange car park, you try pushing a wheelchair back to the ground when it is emptying, it isn't easy.


?

So it's basically just a case of you being lazy. It's hardly a great distance to store the chair in the car. You've been kindly given a free car park pass for the season but can't be bothered to bring the wheelchair back after the game and wait a few minutes for the crowds to disperse - it would take about 10
minutes.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

I'm confused now.
Am I right in thinking the club have offered options and solutions but they aren't satisfactory?
If they aren't satisfactory why is that?

Sounds like the club have offered a few things like. One being to move him to a disabled space in the ground which he doesn't want to do because he feels others need it more which is a personal opinion I suppose but ultimately the club have offered it. The other being the parking space, I can see it would be a hassle trying to get the wheelchair in after the game but again at least the club have offered something. Personally I'd take either of those options before stopping going.

Mind, that being said it does seem strange that in a massive ground they can't find somewhere to store wheelchairs for the small number of people who will need them stored, it's probably something the club should look at

 

[McMackem]

I'm confused now.
Am I right in thinking the club have offered options and solutions but they aren't satisfactory?
If they aren't satisfactory why is that?

Me too - a bit of a rollercoaster reading this.

On the car park generally - it just isn't possible to create a safe route out of anywhere around the ground when 40K+ are leaving, so the 30 minute rule is in place for everyone parked there. Being offered a space there free is as much as the club can do surely. Specifically on the car park aspect what more can the club actually do?

If I understand correctly the issue is that the fan wants to sit with his family and/or sit for the match in a standard seat. On the latter matter I am saddened that he has ever been allowed to store the seat that he requires for transport at a considerable distance away from his seat with no emergency arrangement in place. It is endangering his safety in an emergency and a solution which avoids this should be the only option. If the seats were in an L section then the seat could surely be stored behind the barriers (with a cover of course), exiting in an emergency through the pitch side gates and at the very back if in a U (less desirable). None should be expected to, or allowed to, store a required seat much further away. That sort of arrangement surely can not be with the knowledge of the safety officer.

The ground design made adequate arrangements for wheelchair users, including reserved seats right in front of them for carers or companions. Where there is a whole family this will, understandably, not be immediately practical. A design limitation, but I used to sit in a seat right next to the designated carers seats and perhaps the club could work to extending the provision, if necessary negotiating seat changes for those currently occupying them.

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

Sounds like the club have offered a few things like. One being to move him to a disabled space in the ground which he doesn't want to do because he feels others need it more which is a personal opinion I suppose but ultimately the club have offered it. The other being the parking space, I can see it would be a hassle trying to get the wheelchair in after the game but again at least the club have offered something. Personally I'd take either of those options before stopping going.

Mind, that being said it does seem strange that in a massive ground they can't find somewhere to store wheelchairs for the small number of people who will need them stored, it's probably something the club should look at

Absolutely, he's 90 years old.

Whilst I understand wanting to sit in your own seat, there comes a point where pragmatism comes in

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

So it's basically just a case of you being lazy. It's hardly a great distance to store the chair in the car. You've been kindly given a free car park pass for the season but can't be bothered to bring the wheelchair back after the game and wait a few minutes for the crowds to disperse - it would take about 10
minutes.

That's the bit I don't get like. I understand it'll be a pain trying to get the wheelchair in after the game but as you say it doesn't really take all that long for the crowd to disperse. If it was stored somewhere in the ground which seems to be what the OP wants then surely it'd still take a fair while to get it from wherever it's stored to the seat, again especially with the crowd trying to exit. I must be missing something because I'd imagine it's about 6 of one and half a dozen of the other between bringing it from a storage area in the stadium and getting it from the car park.

 

[janey]

Sounds like the club have offered a few things like. One being to move him to a disabled space in the ground which he doesn't want to do because he feels others need it more which is a personal opinion I suppose but ultimately the club have offered it. The other being the parking space, I can see it would be a hassle trying to get the wheelchair in after the game but again at least the club have offered something. Personally I'd take either of those options before stopping going.

Mind, that being said it does seem strange that in a massive ground they can't find somewhere to store wheelchairs for the small number of people who will need them stored, it's probably something the club should look at

I think I'd take it too I also agree they could maybe find somwere to store a wheelchair. But I do wonder whether they are worried about setting a precedent but without knowing more about how many would want wheelchairs storing it's difficult to comment on the rights and wrongs. Rock and a hard place scenario for the club maybe

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

That's the bit I don't get like. I understand it'll be a pain trying to get the wheelchair in after the game but as you say it doesn't really take all that long for the crowd to disperse. If it was stored somewhere in the ground which seems to be what the OP wants then surely it'd still take a fair while to get it from wherever it's stored to the seat, again especially with the crowd trying to exit. I must be missing something because I'd imagine it's about 6 of one and half a dozen of the other between bringing it from a storage area in the stadium and getting it from the car park.

The bit I don't get is that he has several options

Wheelchair area - no, because there are more deserving. He's 90 ffs. He's deserving
In and out - it's a pain in the arse

I really don't think SAFC have done anything wrong here

 

[hughbert]

So it's basically just a case of you being lazy. It's hardly a great distance to store the chair in the car. You've been kindly given a free car park pass for the season but can't be bothered to bring the wheelchair back after the game and wait a few minutes for the crowds to disperse - it would take about 10
minutes.

What an absolute prick you are, unbelievable comment.

 

[janey]

Me too - a bit of a rollercoaster reading this.

On the car park generally - it just isn't possible to create a safe route out of anywhere around the ground when 40K+ are leaving, so the 30 minute rule is in place for everyone parked there. Being offered a space there free is as much as the club can do surely. Specifically on the car park aspect what more can the club actually do?

If I understand correctly the issue is that the fan wants to sit with his family and/or sit for the match in a standard seat. On the latter matter I am saddened that he has ever been allowed to store the seat that he requires for transport at a considerable distance away from his seat with no emergency arrangement in place. It is endangering his safety in an emergency and a solution which avoids this should be the only option. If the seats were in an L section then the seat could surely be stored behind the barriers (with a cover of course), exiting in an emergency through the pitch side gates and at the very back if in a U (less desirable). None should be expected to, or allowed to, store a required seat much further away. That sort of arrangement surely can not be with the knowledge of the safety officer.

The ground design made adequate arrangements for wheelchair users, including reserved seats right in front of them for carers or companions. Where there is a whole family this will, understandably, not be immediately practical. A design limitation, but I used to sit in a seat right next to the designated carers seats and perhaps the club could work to extending the provision, if necessary negotiating seat changes for those currently occupying them.

I don't think there is going to be the outcome the op wants and I can't decide on who is right and wrong, as you say a rollercoaster. I do know I'd do whatever to make sure me dad could get to the match

 

[McMackem]

I don't think there is going to be the outcome the op wants and I can't decide on who is right and wrong, as you say a rollercoaster. I do know I'd do whatever to make sure me dad could get to the match

It did always seem to me that the carer provision was physically poor tbh. They sit on the other side of the wall along the back of row 15, very close to the wheelchair user, but very seperated. 'Near' but not 'with'. I wonder how it is arranged in newer grounds.

 

[janey]

It did always seem to me that the carer provision was physically poor tbh. They sit on the other side of the wall along the back of row 15, very close to the wheelchair user, but very seperated. 'Near' but not 'with'. I wonder how it is arranged in newer grounds.

Yeah we sit in row 14 of East Stand and there is a row, well not really a row, but a space behind the wall behind 15 as you say for wheelchairs and disabled. Its far from ideal, football stadiums aren't the greatest place for wheelchair access and that's just an observation not a defence of football clubs.

 

[Speedy1976]

aye. He can walk from seat to toilet and back but in the case of emergency would just be sat there scratching his head waiting to be moved unable to evacuate the stadium and having folk climb over him. There are various degrees of mobility or lack of it. It's not black and white you either can walk or can't walk.

If I was the OP (or the OP's dad) I'd find your posts rather offensive tbh.

Haven't read the rest of the thread because this post wound me up.

I don't see what you mean as you've basically agreed with what I've said. He would be sat there waiting to be moved or whilst walking very slowly 1000s of people would be barging past him causing him distress and possibly harm.

I assure you and everyone else I mean no offence and I'm only viewing it objectively.
If it was me or my dad I'd probably be up in arms as well.

If this post has wound you up it's best you don't read the rest, as a lot of people have been a lot more blunt and offensive than me.

 

[why do i do it?]

So it's basically just a case of you being lazy. It's hardly a great distance to store the chair in the car. You've been kindly given a free car park pass for the season but can't be bothered to bring the wheelchair back after the game and wait a few minutes for the crowds to disperse - it would take about 10
minutes.

actually, i have a heart condition, which is why i find it a chore getting back with the chair, but that isn't the issue here. my concern is ,if there was a fire in the west stand, with the wind blowing towards the river, by the time i'd got back with his chair, i would have no idea where my dad was. where the chair was stored for 3 1/2 seasons it would have taken about one minute to get it and get back to him. see my concern there?

Me too - a bit of a rollercoaster reading this.

On the car park generally - it just isn't possible to create a safe route out of anywhere around the ground when 40K+ are leaving, so the 30 minute rule is in place for everyone parked there. Being offered a space there free is as much as the club can do surely. Specifically on the car park aspect what more can the club actually do?

If I understand correctly the issue is that the fan wants to sit with his family and/or sit for the match in a standard seat. On the latter matter I am saddened that he has ever been allowed to store the seat that he requires for transport at a considerable distance away from his seat with no emergency arrangement in place. It is endangering his safety in an emergency and a solution which avoids this should be the only option. If the seats were in an L section then the seat could surely be stored behind the barriers (with a cover of course), exiting in an emergency through the pitch side gates and at the very back if in a U (less desirable). None should be expected to, or allowed to, store a required seat much further away. That sort of arrangement surely can not be with the knowledge of the safety officer.

The ground design made adequate arrangements for wheelchair users, including reserved seats right in front of them for carers or companions. Where there is a whole family this will, understandably, not be immediately practical. A design limitation, but I used to sit in a seat right next to the designated carers seats and perhaps the club could work to extending the provision, if necessary negotiating seat changes for those currently occupying them.

his seat was stored in the photographers room, which is about a 30 second trip to get his chair, so another minute say to get back to him and we are on our way. or is it safer for him to sit there while i go to the orange car park, and back with his chair. i know which option is quicker and safer.

I'm confused now.
Am I right in thinking the club have offered options and solutions but they aren't satisfactory?
If they aren't satisfactory why is that?

worst case scenario, fire in the west stand, wind blowing towards the river. by the time ig get to the orange car park, battle my way back to the ground through everyone going away from the ground. where would my dad be?

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

actually, i have a heart condition, which is why i find it a chore getting back with the chair, but that isn't the issue here. my concern is ,if there was a fire in the west stand, with the wind blowing towards the river, by the time i'd got back with his chair, i would have no idea where my dad was. where the chair was stored for 3 1/2 seasons it would have taken about one minute to get it and get back to him. see my concern there?




his seat was stored in the photographers room, which is about a 30 second trip to get his chair, so another minute say to get back to him and we are on our way. or is it safer for him to sit there while i go to the orange car park, and back with his chair. i know which option is quicker and safer.




worst case scenario, fire in the west stand, wind blowing towards the river. by the time ig get to the orange car park, battle my way back to the ground through everyone going away from the ground. where would my dad be?

But if he needs the wheelchair to get out in the event of an emergency, surely that means the safest option is to take the offer of a disabled space at the ground?

After all, for whatever reason the room they used to store it has been deemed not suitable. If they find somewhere else to store it there's every chance it won't be as close, especially if they offer it as a storage place for a number of people in your dad's position who will all sit in different areas of the ground. In an emergency even a minute and a half could be too long to get the wheelchair to him tbh, especially if there's panic and people running around trying to get out, much safer in the disabled area so he can have his wheelchair with him. If he doesn't want that then fair enough but I don't see how it's the clubs fault (and I am far from someone who always backs up the clubs stance on various issues)

 

[why do i do it?]

But if he needs the wheelchair to get out in the event of an emergency, surely that means the safest option is to take the offer of a disabled space at the ground?

After all, for whatever reason the room they used to store it has been deemed not suitable. If they find somewhere else to store it there's every chance it won't be as close, especially if they offer it as a storage place for a number of people in your dad's position who will all sit in different areas of the ground. In an emergency even a minute and a half could be too long to get the wheelchair to him tbh, especially if there's panic and people running around trying to get out, much safer in the disabled area so he can have his wheelchair with him. If he doesn't want that then fair enough but I don't see how it's the clubs fault (and I am far from someone who always backs up the clubs stance on various issues)

he doesn't, he is able enough to walk out of the stadium but would then need his chair. still need to know how an empty room is not deemed suitable for storing mobility aids

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

he doesn't, he is able enough to walk out of the stadium but would then need his chair. still need to know how an empty room is not deemed suitable for storing mobility aids

Hang on, I'm really not trying to be difficult here but I'm just not understanding you. At first you've said you'd need to go out in an emergency and get the wheelchair and bring it back in. If he can walk out of the stadium why wouldn't you just do that? That would get him to an area that I assume would be safe and, if he's capable of standing for short periods as your post suggests he is, you could then quickly get the chair and bring it to him. How far is it to walk to the car park you could get the pass for?

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

Hang on, I'm really not trying to be difficult here but I'm just not understanding you. At first you've said you'd need to go out in an emergency and get the wheelchair and bring it back in. If he can walk out of the stadium why wouldn't you just do that? That would get him to an area that I assume would be safe and, if he's capable of standing for short periods as your post suggests he is, you could then quickly get the chair and bring it to him. How far is it to walk to the car park you could get the pass for?

You're absolutely spot on here

 

[Maximus]

I don't see why folk can't understand the OP/his father. A disabled space is not an option - neither of them want it and that is their right. We might not agree with it (that is also people's right).

The club have offered up several solutions except the one that was until recently perfectly acceptable but now it seem isn't any longer, despite the photographers having no qualms with the seat being there and indeed use it as a temporary half time seat.

I witnessed the commotion in the west stand (downstairs near the bookies) presumably as the pair were being removed. Is that really what it has come to and is it really necessary? I mean really?

Easy to just say accept this or that but place yourself in their position with your nearest and dearest.....

 

[clockstandpaddock]

Old fella being a bit awkward imo. Sorry if this upsets people.