New era?

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The Exile said:
It's hardly special moon water like. Plenty of evidence knocking about - same story with every manager regardless of experience and management style, the Di Canio debacle and what was widely reported as being said to him at the time indicating that their idea of 'running through brick walls' meant sacking it off in training cause they weren't being watched. Five managers on the bounce unable to coax anything like decent form over an extended period unless it's crunch time.

Your choice whether to see it or not.
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I've seen enough of it first hand to see the players you slate putting the work in to know it's not a lack of application from the ones you slate lazily. We've primarily been let down by a lack of talent from the players brought into either replace or suppliment them.

The facts are our team has been better with the players you slate rather than without them. This has been proven in the past when they've been out of the team. It's mind boggling that even with that proving your wrong you continue to trot out the same bullshit. Makes you look a big daft IMHO like.
 


not spavin said:
Larsson was player of the year last season. Bardsley, another of your 'core', 2 seasons prior. JOS has been made captain - possible based on his 5 league titles and Champions League.

You are talking utter shit. Classic conspiracy theorist behaviour, twisting and ignore evidence to support a viewpoint you inherited elsewhere.
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Lets not forget Catts getting North East Player of the Year
 
not spavin said:
Larsson was player of the year last season. Bardsley, another of your 'core', 2 seasons prior. JOS has been made captain - possible based on his 5 league titles and Champions League.

You are talking utter shit. Classic conspiracy theorist behaviour, twisting and ignore evidence to support a viewpoint you inherited elsewhere.
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The view I inherited through use of a time machine apparently. Irrelevant when I get to use it I suppose.

Player Of The Year at perennial plughole circlers. Doesn't sound quite so impressive then does it?
 
rocky said:
How do you explain long winless runs throughout Bruces career with different players?
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Cattermoles fault we barely won a game after Xmas under Sbragia.

Larsson to blame for the record breaking losing streak under Mick Mac / Wilko.
 
rocky said:
:)

Its madness, the supposed rotten core have been our best players but they're somehow the main problem.
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They're the only players who've been here any length of time. Everyone else has gone in every area connected to the playing side and the same problems remain.
 
rocky said:
:)

Its madness, the supposed rotten core have been our best players but they're somehow the main problem.
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I don't know why it's news to him that poor teams have long runs of shit results, we've always had it.

If anything it shows character that these players dig in at important times to get us out of the shit, our previous relegation sides would have packed in & given up.
 
The Exile said:
They're the only players who've been here any length of time. Everyone else has gone in every area connected to the playing side and the same problems remain.
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That tells you we haven't bought correctly and the players added haven't been good enough. Clearly. Or have we had loads of top class players who have been ruined by the rotten core?
 
If M'Vila has a good season he will probably favour a move to a better team as that Dutch defender at So'ton did. Lens may attract interest from elsewhere and unless we can improve his contract he would go, Toivonen is only here for the season and Rodgers will buy Borini back for £35 million next season after he scores 20 goals for us.

That would leave us with a midfield of Cattermole, Larsson, Gomez and Bridcutt and with Defoe retiring to Australia, Danny Graham will start up front alongside Mikael Mandron.

But yeah I agree, things are starting to look better ;)
 
A few summers ago, Bruce era, we needed to sign the likes of Brown, Larsson, JOS, to help establish ourselves as a premier league team, we have then proceeded to buy crap and not create a competitive atmosphere around the squad with regards to places, perhaps we've had faith in too many managers who say the right things but are unable to deliver, perhaps we had the idea that the academy would produce players before now, or perhaps it's that we didn't have enough money to buy quality throughout the squad instead of focusing on one or two positions. Whatever it is, I feel the club is heading in the right direction, we're beginning to produce some decent youth players, and we are recruiting better, while the job isn't complete it's certainly at a level that shows we are improving, add to the defence within the next year and we'll look better again, but we can't just focus on the defence, as many weak links as possible need to be gotten rid of and the quality in depth added to, by buying BETTER than we currently have! Buying players to add to the squad is bullshit. The current lot here should be challenged every summer to keep their place or get benched. Those already on the bench and not capable of dislodging a teammate are those that need shipping on.
 
The Exile said:
They're the only players who've been here any length of time. Everyone else has gone in every area connected to the playing side and the same problems remain.
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And... the rest of the players... were good? That's your argument?
 
not spavin said:
Agree with all that. Someone on here (may've been you) mooted the idea of appointing Advocaat as a DoF of sorts next season. That makes sense to me. He could work from the family base, doesn't need to get involved in much beyond the first team, it could ease his passage into retirement while he still has fresh contacts in the game. If we insist on sticking by Congerton, maybe they can share the job for a year or two.

Otherwise, we could start the summer with another failed DoF / coach relationship, and take another step backwards.



In what way does Cattermole, O'Shea and Larsson do the bare minimum?
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Take your point. With Larsson and Cattermole it's the bare maximum. With O'Shea it"s the geriatric maxim ... and I should know!
 
Lanchesterredandwhite said:
One of the main problems we have had since 2011 is that we have been stuck with an ageing, frequently failing spine of the team. Up until the end of last season it was quite depressing how much of our best side was signed by Bruce (or even Keane) - the likes of Bardsley (for a long time), Brown, O'Shea, Larsson, Cattermole, Wickham.

Various managers have come in and failed to improve things. O'Neill went for what he thought was quality rather than quantity but Fletcher and Johnson were inconsistent and he wasn't given time to turn things around with that approach. Di Canio let the clown De Fanti squander millions on absolute shite (Celustka, Dossena, Roberge, Diakite, Mavrias, Moberg Karlsson, Altidore, etc) in the arrogant belief that he could take a group of shite players and get results. Poyet was proven to be out of his depth and short on experience, as he believed that Championship players like Bridcutt and Buckley, and South Americans like Vergini and Scocco, could be turned into an effective squad.

As a result, we always fell back on those players who were left behind from the Bruce era.

With the transfer window shut, this summer feels like the first time we have made a convincing step forward. The defence still looks a little vulnerable IMO, but M'Vila, Toivonen, Lens, and Borini, look like the basis of a new team to me. It feels like Advocaat has brought in the right amount of fresh blood, of a good enough standard, that we can move forward, not just try and cling on with an ageing squad bought four managers ago. Brown will hardly play this season, O'Shea won't need to play every week at the age of 34, Larsson and Cattermole will have to fight for their place.

I'm still worried about our defence, but after years of mismanagement, one window was never going to put everything right.

Even if Advocaat does leave at the end of the season, it feels like he has been the first manager here in years who has actually built the foundations of a decent team.
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I agree with a lot of what you say but not everything. I don't blame the managers as a group following the failed appointment of Di Fanti then Congerton. Personally, I have no doubt that was done on the basis of cost saving. It is interesting to note what Poyet (or was it DA) said about the process involved in buying players which resulted in the poorest quality players arriving at the SOL with the managers having little choice in the matter. It is to Advocaat's credit that he was able to demand better quality players be signed otherwise he would not stay.

It seems to me that Short has been forced to see the light by the supporters, the unusually high support for Advocaat from the supporters and perhaps through a learning process over the last two seasons. A part of me also believes the activities of the unwashed up the road may have caused Short to re-think his parsimonious strategy fearing we would fall massively behind them. Then we also have the spectre of losingmany millions if we were to be relegated along with the embarrassment in seeing the rise of minions like Swansea.

All in all I feel a number of factors caused us to slide to the edge of the abyss and different factors have perhaps resulted in us making some sort of effort to stabilise and even move forward a little. Well it's a start.
 
bagpiperay said:
I agree with a lot of what you say but not everything. I don't blame the managers as a group following the failed appointment of Di Fanti then Congerton. Personally, I have no doubt that was done on the basis of cost saving. It is interesting to note what Poyet (or was it DA) said about the process involved in buying players which resulted in the poorest quality players arriving at the SOL with the managers having little choice in the matter. It is to Advocaat's credit that he was able to demand better quality players be signed otherwise he would not stay.

It seems to me that Short has been forced to see the light by the supporters, the unusually high support for Advocaat from the supporters and perhaps through a learning process over the last two seasons. A part of me also believes the activities of the unwashed up the road may have caused Short to re-think his parsimonious strategy fearing we would fall massively behind them. Then we also have the spectre of losingmany millions if we were to be relegated along with the embarrassment in seeing the rise of minions like Swansea.

All in all I feel a number of factors caused us to slide to the edge of the abyss and different factors have perhaps resulted in us making some sort of effort to stabilise and even move forward a little. Well it's a start.
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Much of this post is codshit. Using the excuses of another failed manager for one
 
bagpiperay said:
I love your reasoned reply :lol::lol::lol:
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Sorry fella. Putting the kids to bed. :oops:

The Poyet bit was shite for starters. He bleated on about not getting the players he wanted. However what was his solution? The club tried and the players said no. Was he going to hold his breath till they joined? At some point either he or the club had to come up with new targets or choose to go on with what was already there. It seems he just got the hump - which helped absolutely nobody.

And as for short seeing the light, posters who would know have categorically said that the club agreed the deal for Borini in principle prior to Advocaats supposed outburst and the chants from the home crowd. The info we've got would suggest that it wasn't a reluctance to spend that was delaying things but more a reluctance of our targets to commit before the deadline.
 
More than anything, I'm just glad we have some players who can replace the dross that has been holding the club back for the last 3 or 4 seasons.
 
The Cabbage said:
Sorry fella. Putting the kids to bed. :oops:

The Poyet bit was shite for starters. He bleated on about not getting the players he wanted. However what was his solution? The club tried and the players said no. Was he going to hold his breath till they joined? At some point either he or the club had to come up with new targets or choose to go on with what was already there. It seems he just got the hump - which helped absolutely nobody.

And as for short seeing the light, posters who would know have categorically said that the club agreed the deal for Borini in principle prior to Advocaats supposed outburst and the chants from the home crowd. The info we've got would suggest that it wasn't a reluctance to spend that was delaying things but more a reluctance of our targets to commit before the deadline.
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I hope the kids got to bed ok ;)
 
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