Gus Poyet blames under-strength squad for Black Cats' struggles

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Gus is spot on - underwhelming signings in the summer are now coming back to haunt us - I think it's going to be a long hard winter for us fans. Very surprised Poyet didn't walk at the end of the transfer window
 
Like MON you mean.........who also signed danny graham...........



be astounded squared then............

Do you have the inside info then?

What I cannot get my head around is a Texan Billionaire taking over a club in the cash richest league in Europe if not world apart from the Arab countries and losing money when you see the Glaziers at Man U buy them put all their debt onto Man U was it 980 mill or something then see this has been reduced to something like 338 mill so if they can do that surely a Premiership club with wage caps as we are led to believe cannot be insolvent or constantly in debt if ran right.

I do take note Man U have been a little more successful than us over recent times but they also pay the 250k week wages etc but my main point i cannot see how Short is losing money.
 
You said a few days ago the lad who heard these quotes on Radio Newcastle was a liar and now you dispute the authenticity of the Poyet quotes from the Mail? Give it up mate.

Some people can just never admit they were wrong...

Thanks. I was that poster, thought I was going mad given the stick I got on here. none as blind as those that will not see etc etc lol
 
Yes, sell most of our squad because they'd be useless for his playing 'style', replace with overpriced hoofers then complain about the tactics £100m later.
If it turns into a firefight then he'd be the perfect man for the job. He showed at Palace last season that his organisational abilities would instill enough into a club to keep them up - and they weren't bad on the eye either. The problem is when you give the fella significant money to spend. At that point he's an absolute disaster. As a short term measure to keep us up he'd be perfect (should things deteriorate). As a long term man to build a club he'd be a disaster.

Do you have the inside info then?

What I cannot get my head around is a Texan Billionaire taking over a club in the cash richest league in Europe if not world apart from the Arab countries and losing money when you see the Glaziers at Man U buy them put all their debt onto Man U was it 980 mill or something then see this has been reduced to something like 338 mill so if they can do that surely a Premiership club with wage caps as we are led to believe cannot be insolvent or constantly in debt if ran right.

I do take note Man U have been a little more successful than us over recent times but they also pay the 250k week wages etc but my main point i cannot see how Short is losing money.
When you're aiming for CL places it makes sense to play the big gamble - so long as your pockets are deep enough (eg. able to punt hundreds of billions in over 3 seasons). A few seasons at CL level and your club has grown exponentially. For the rest of us with owners with a mere billion net worth, the numbers just don't add up. Sure there's £1m available per place but if you can find a player available for a £10m fee who'd guarantee to take us from rock bottom to our joint best finish for a decade then you should send your CV in to the club. The only play that makes sense is to try to grow organically. That means being serious and thorough about recruitment, having a well defined plan and spending what the club can naturally afford. The fact that this means slow progress, occasional stagnation and the lingering spectre of disaster is just something that we have to endure, I'm afraid.

Some fella in the local I'd expect;)
 
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Do you have the inside info then?

What I cannot get my head around is a Texan Billionaire taking over a club in the cash richest league in Europe if not world apart from the Arab countries and losing money when you see the Glaziers at Man U buy them put all their debt onto Man U was it 980 mill or something then see this has been reduced to something like 338 mill so if they can do that surely a Premiership club with wage caps as we are led to believe cannot be insolvent or constantly in debt if ran right.

I do take note Man U have been a little more successful than us over recent times but they also pay the 250k week wages etc but my main point i cannot see how Short is losing money.
The clubs accounts show consistent losses year on year as well as the cash Short paid to acquire the club/pay off Drumavilles Debts/loans to prop it up which hes since converted into equity.............

Its extremely easy to see how hes been "losing money"

2009/10 loss £26 million (includes profit on player trading of £5.6 million)
2010/11 loss £6.2 million ( includes profit on player trading of £25.5 million)
2011/12 loss £32.3 million ( includes loss on player trading of £3 million)
2012/13 loss £13 million ( includes profit on player trading of £11 million)

And since hes been here hes put a shitload into the club http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Sunderland
"Step forward, Ellis Short, the Texan billionaire president of US investment firm Lone Star Funds, who has owned the club outright since May 2009. Short cannot be accused of not putting his money where his mouth is, as by my reckoning he has injected well over £100 million into Sunderland. The accounts show that he has capitalised £67.5 million of loans (£48.5 million in 2009 and £19 million in 2010) and provided a further £28.4 million of unsecured, interest free loans with no set repayment date. That gives a total of £95.9 million of free funding, on top of the money that Short paid to acquire the club, which has not been publicly divulged, but is estimated to be in the region of £10-20 million, as well as clearing the debts of the previous owners, Drumaville2 Limited.

Bear in mind that article is three years old and I bet hes put more in since then.........



 
If Poyet thinks he is so short of defenders, why did he sign Coates, a defender known for his injury problems on loan and not someone else? I can't imagine Congerton is the one who has gone and persuaded a Uruguayan player to come here without the help of Gus.

The clubs accounts show consistent losses year on year as well as the cash Short paid to acquire the club/pay off Drumavilles Debts/loans to prop it up which hes since converted into equity.............

Its extremely easy to see how hes been "losing money"

2009/10 loss £26 million (includes profit on player trading of £5.6 million)
2010/11 loss £6.2 million ( includes profit on player trading of £25.5 million)
2011/12 loss £32.3 million ( includes loss on player trading of £3 million)
2012/13 loss £13 million ( includes profit on player trading of £11 million)

And since hes been here hes put a shitload into the club http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Sunderland
"Step forward, Ellis Short, the Texan billionaire president of US investment firm Lone Star Funds, who has owned the club outright since May 2009. Short cannot be accused of not putting his money where his mouth is, as by my reckoning he has injected well over £100 million into Sunderland. The accounts show that he has capitalised £67.5 million of loans (£48.5 million in 2009 and £19 million in 2010) and provided a further £28.4 million of unsecured, interest free loans with no set repayment date. That gives a total of £95.9 million of free funding, on top of the money that Short paid to acquire the club, which has not been publicly divulged, but is estimated to be in the region of £10-20 million, as well as clearing the debts of the previous owners, Drumaville2 Limited.

Bear in mind that article is three years old and I bet hes put more in since then.........




:lol: It's amazing how many times I've looked at a thread recently to see people accusing you of lying over our financial situation - it's publically available information.

Some people won't be happy until we spend £50m a summer and will be the first ones to complain when we incur penalties for FFP, struggle with our debt in the lower leagues or worse still, go bust.
 
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The clubs accounts show consistent losses year on year as well as the cash Short paid to acquire the club/pay off Drumavilles Debts/loans to prop it up which hes since converted into equity.............

Its extremely easy to see how hes been "losing money"

2009/10 loss £26 million (includes profit on player trading of £5.6 million)
2010/11 loss £6.2 million ( includes profit on player trading of £25.5 million)
2011/12 loss £32.3 million ( includes loss on player trading of £3 million)
2012/13 loss £13 million ( includes profit on player trading of £11 million)

And since hes been here hes put a shitload into the club http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Sunderland
"Step forward, Ellis Short, the Texan billionaire president of US investment firm Lone Star Funds, who has owned the club outright since May 2009. Short cannot be accused of not putting his money where his mouth is, as by my reckoning he has injected well over £100 million into Sunderland. The accounts show that he has capitalised £67.5 million of loans (£48.5 million in 2009 and £19 million in 2010) and provided a further £28.4 million of unsecured, interest free loans with no set repayment date. That gives a total of £95.9 million of free funding, on top of the money that Short paid to acquire the club, which has not been publicly divulged, but is estimated to be in the region of £10-20 million, as well as clearing the debts of the previous owners, Drumaville2 Limited.

Bear in mind that article is three years old and I bet hes put more in since then.........



Exactly. Doesn't fit the narrative, though, does it? At least not for those determined to label Short as tight-fisted and refusing to put money in.

The fact is he's actually put a massive wedge in and it has, by and large, been completely blown. People ought to remember this when they suspect a tightening of the belt.
 
Gus is spot on - underwhelming signings in the summer are now coming back to haunt us - I think it's going to be a long hard winter for us fans. Very surprised Poyet didn't walk at the end of the transfer window

Fuck off man!

He spent £10m on a player who has done absolutely nothing. He spent most of the summer chasing a player he failed to sign.

Walked because he fucked up????

Further thoughts - the 2 players he signed from Brighton. One is so far out of his depth it is comical, the other is a championship player

His judgement on players has to be questioned mind. Saying he is Spot on is sticking your head in the sand
 
I think as a Texan businessman who had no interest or love of football previously he took over Sunderland to make one thing ££££ which I have no problem about.(I would be astounded if he was not making money), the problem I have is the set up (He appears not to know what he is doing) and budget model that seems to have been incorporated because we have players who are constantly injured or not upto the job.

This transfer window mirrors the last one, budget players who cannot make the 1st team of the club they were at or players being bought from lower divisions, or players who seem to be injured frequently, why?

Why cannot we have a blend of players where we sign good quality players with up and coming players why does it always seem 1 big signing then a smuttering of basement value players.

The expensive or pedigree players we have, have not been consistent with the money we paid for them apart from Bent unless anyone can name any big name signings since who have performed consistently while being with us or still with us.

I think we will stay up but another flirt or battle with relegation is on the cards this season so much for our progress, constantly flirting or battling relegation since we have been in the Premiership, just want us to be in the top half of the table instead of the bottom half every season.
You are entitled to that opinion but I have no clue how you work out he is making money. It's cost him a fortune.
Why aren't we signing proven quality players? We can't afford them and if we could chances are they wouldn't come anyway.
We have to take a chance on players who are squad members at the bottom clubs, youngsters coming up, players from abroad and the championship. That's our market place and will remain so until we find an owner prepared to throw hundreds of millions at it in a short period of time.
In reality there is a top 6/7 and the rest, most of them could finish 17th or 8th from one season to the next.
 
If Poyet thinks he is so short of defenders, why did he sign Coates, a defender known for his injury problems on loan and not someone else? I can't imagine Congerton is the one who has gone and persuaded a Uruguayan player to come here without the help of Gus.




:lol: It's amazing how many times I've looked at a thread recently to see people accusing you of lying over our financial situation - it's publically available information.

Some people won't be happy until we spend £50m a summer and will be the first ones to complain when we incur penalties for FFP, struggle with our debt in the lower leagues or worse still, go bust.

Why do people still ask this question, we have a very long history of doing this, nearly all our January loans, Greek, Danny Graham, Coates its really simple
Manager wants a body.
Can we loan anybody?
Can we buy anybody for £x
He's available
Take him or nowt.
Manager will take him.
Happens every year then manager gets blame for deadwood wasting a loan etc.
All it usual is, is a number / body might aswell grab someone out of the crowd, it would be cheaper. (don't tell Short that ;))
 
Like MON you mean.........who also signed danny graham...........
Fair point about O'Neill who was a disaster with his style of play, signings and management, and not entirely unexpected. Perhaps my brevity was too much. Basically, I was making the point that we have wasted many, many millions on very average, or indeed rather poor, players. Yet we get in untried managers from the lower divisions or mediocre managers from elsewhere. I'm suggesting we pay the equivalent of a transfer fee for a good quality manager with good coaches to develop the Academy and playing skills which, in the bigger picture, might be a better use of resources.
That is not to say, of course, that we might not unearth the next Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger but I wonder why we went for either Di Canio or Poyet following O'Neill who, in my view, was past his sell by date, especially without his sidekick Robertson.
 
Fair point about O'Neill who was a disaster with his style of play, signings and management, and not entirely unexpected. Perhaps my brevity was too much. Basically, I was making the point that we have wasted many, many millions on very average, or indeed rather poor, players. Yet we get in untried managers from the lower divisions or mediocre managers from elsewhere. I'm suggesting we pay the equivalent of a transfer fee for a good quality manager with good coaches to develop the Academy and playing skills which, in the bigger picture, might be a better use of resources.
That is not to say, of course, that we might not unearth the next Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger but I wonder why we went for either Di Canio or Poyet following O'Neill who, in my view, was past his sell by date, especially without his sidekick Robertson.
It's a question of what you can get at the time, though. When MON went with 8 games left we were headed for oblivion so there was little choice but to roll the dice. To a marginally lesser extent it was the same with Poyet. Far more time left but with a club who were more of a basket case and with the added negative of it being the second coach in a 6 month period. If Poyet goes this year we will be shopping at a similar thrift store. All the money in the world won't convince a truly top, visionary coach to take on a rescue job. For better or worse we have to hope that Gus is able to put some form of stability behind us so that our journey to the next man can be a little more serene.
 
Do you have the inside info then?

What I cannot get my head around is a Texan Billionaire taking over a club in the cash richest league in Europe if not world apart from the Arab countries and losing money when you see the Glaziers at Man U buy them put all their debt onto Man U was it 980 mill or something then see this has been reduced to something like 338 mill so if they can do that surely a Premiership club with wage caps as we are led to believe cannot be insolvent or constantly in debt if ran right.

I do take note Man U have been a little more successful than us over recent times but they also pay the 250k week wages etc but my main point i cannot see how Short is losing money.

And on the subject of Manure it was the debt the Glazers accrued borrowing the cash to buy the club that they were able to then physically place on the clubs books once the takeover was completed.It was around £520 million but such were the interest rates that they actually rolled up debt on a couple of years onto the loan and it did reach about £700 million,you are correct in that its now come down and is about £350 million.

However they turn over monster amounts of money ( north of £400 million) have dozens upon dozens of sponsorship deals,were able to sell Ronaldo at a crucial time for £80 million and also float 10% of the club on the NY stock exchange and use some of that to pay debts off...........

Different animal to us with far more resource to sort out what were massive debts at one point..........
 
Disagree on Borini RG. Whether it was down to cash owing or not it could still be used. We either forgo the money from LFC or we collect it and use it somewhere else. That's just a matter of cashflow. Think it was @Maxie who said that we made a big offer late in the window for a striker. I'm fairly sure that there is money there. The problem is that Poyet is intransigent when it comes to player acquisition. He either knows them well or he's not that interested. As I said earlier I bet he was absolute murder for Congerton this summer.
I agree with what you say about Poyet stance on transfers, which, to me shows me he is not the best operator in the market. As for Borini, I sense that something wasn't right, either it's Poyet, or the money wasn't there. Nothing can persuade me to think that this club, as it is now, would spend £14m on one player. We haven't spent that in total in recent years. I hear there's been a falling out S & P.
 
You are entitled to that opinion but I have no clue how you work out he is making money. It's cost him a fortune.
Why aren't we signing proven quality players? We can't afford them and if we could chances are they wouldn't come anyway.
We have to take a chance on players who are squad members at the bottom clubs, youngsters coming up, players from abroad and the championship. That's our market place and will remain so until we find an owner prepared to throw hundreds of millions at it in a short period of time.
In reality there is a top 6/7 and the rest, most of them could finish 17th or 8th from one season to the next.
Very good post - and what is behind it begs the question "what's the point?"
The Sky league is set up for a global audience of "supporters" for the top 6 or so clubs. Everyone else is canon fodder and that will not change without a club finding an owner with almost unlimited wealth who is willing and able to throw hundreds and hundreds of millions at it!

Why would anyone do this?

They won't and we are stuck with our lot, The End
 
Just what i was told, but we made a big offer for a striker cum wide player late in window but he chose elsewhere.
Not sure if it is the money or not TBH. Was Borini all cash deal? Probs not.
Did we wait for Coates till after Borini? Probably.
Did we go after another forward after Bornin no go? Maybe.
Maybe we didnt go for both (if Borini was not all a cash deal) as we couldnt promise both games.

In the end we got neither.....or much defensive cover.
I think this window and its problems have beena collection of random factors that came togehter - one linked to another and having knock on affects.

All i know is that 'i was told' the bit about the forward bid and that the club are trying to run on as frugal/tight as possible, but are willing to spend big if a particular deal is very very 'right.'
I don't think that is the case (the spend big if the player is very, very right, I also don't think that Borini was worth anything like £14 m. nor Rodwell anything near £10m which, I'm sure is mostly add ons.).
 
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