Coates for 2m

[sksk3021]

He might be, but then given he's barely played in England over the last three/four years maybe he just needed a run of games, rather than being judged when not close to being match fit?

Also it's a pretty strange thing to say given we were doing more of the defend deep in numbers earlier in the season under Poyet, than we were later under Advocaat when we actually tried to get men forward and support.

Maybe he did, maybe his fitness record has hindered him. Another question mark.
He hardly played under poyet but he seemed more suited to the backs against the wall kick it anywhere get your body in the way type stuff than trying to play it out from the back or pushing up the pitch.

 

[East Riding Mackem]

Peaks and troughs, hes doing an ok job.

Big summer ahead for him but Coates is a good start.

agreed, I'm not a big fan of the DoF model, but at least we now have someone on the board who actually knows the game - he gets on with Dick too, so should be good.

 

[sksk3021]

agreed, I'm not a big fan of the DoF model, but at least we now have someone on the board who actually knows the game - he gets on with Dick too, so should be good.

You aren't a fan of the director of football model, but you do want a director who knows football?

 

[the flying graysons]

Whilst I appreciate the passion/aggression in your post, I was actually referring to Coates as one of the 3 that aren't. Personally I think he's shit. Had two good games at the end of the season which has somehow managed to skew people's opinion

So he has had more good than bad even in your skewed world?

 

[East Riding Mackem]

You aren't a fan of the director of football model, but you do want a director who knows football?

I think generally managers should have the final say on player recruitment but it's refreshing to have someone at board level who has a vague clue about football, Congerton is the first we've had since Quinn

 

[sksk3021]

I think generally managers should have the final say on player recruitment but it's refreshing to have someone at board level who has a vague clue about football, Congerton is the first we've had since Quinn

Congerton isn't on the board. Doesn't the manager have final say on recruitment? What is it that you think the football director should be doing?

 

[East Riding Mackem]

Congerton isn't on the board. Doesn't the manager have final say on recruitment? What is it that you think the football director should be doing?

negotiating the deals, running the scouting network, etc- he should be on the board, didn't realise that.

 

[Shangri La]

So he has had more good than bad even in your skewed world?

He was being hailed as one of the worst signings we'd made since we came back up before the last few games of the season.

 

[the flying graysons]

He was being hailed as one of the worst signings we'd made since we came back up before the last few games of the season.

On the basis of how many minutes of game time ?

 

[sksk3021]

negotiating the deals, running the scouting network, etc- he should be on the board, didn't realise that.

Isn't that exactly what congerton does? Why would the board need to be involved in scouting?

 

[Perryqhill]

Whilst I appreciate the passion/aggression in your post, I was actually referring to Coates as one of the 3 that aren't. Personally I think he's shit. Had two good games at the end of the season which has somehow managed to skew people's opinion

Apologies, that only makes you look even more over the top and ridiculous though.

He had a decent enough run of form. Strange you say "he's only had two good games at the end of the season" when he'd barely had many more to prove he was shit isn't it?

 

[East Riding Mackem]

Isn't that exactly what congerton does? Why would the board need to be involved in scouting?

surely someone spending vast amounts of the club money should be on the board?

 

[Perryqhill]

Maybe he did, maybe his fitness record has hindered him. Another question mark.
He hardly played under poyet but he seemed more suited to the backs against the wall kick it anywhere get your body in the way type stuff than trying to play it out from the back or pushing up the pitch.

But we played in our own last third under Poyet, defending in our own last third mostly, trying to contain sides and passing it back to our back line before launching it forward anyway. I don't buy this "play it out from the back" or pushing up the pitch under Poyet as we didn't do any of that when Coates played games for him, it was long gone. He came into a side with Advocaat and actually had a run rather than playing a game in the cup in September, a game early December, then being chucked in over the Christmas period and another two FA cup games at the start and end of January.

He was being hailed as one of the worst signings we'd made since we came back up before the last few games of the season.

Can't remember that, though I can remember him being labelled by many as one of our worst loan signings. Given he's barely played till April and our loan signings have generally been our best players over the last five years, I don't see that being a real suprise do you?

I also don't take much notice of what's said on here, as it's generally spur of the moment reaction stuff.

 

[sksk3021]

But we played in our own last third under Poyet, defending in our own last third mostly, trying to contain sides and passing it back to our back line before launching it forward anyway. I don't buy this "play it out from the back" or pushing up the pitch under Poyet as we didn't do any of that when Coates played games for him, it was long gone. He came into a side with Advocaat and actually had a run rather than playing a game in the cup in September, a game early December, then being chucked in over the Christmas period and another two FA cup games at the start and end of January.

I didn't say that we didn't defend deep under poyet, but we were certainly more direct under advocaat which I think suited Coates.
I'm really not sure what you are arguing with? Are you saying there aren't any question marks over him?

surely someone spending vast amounts of the club money should be on the board?

Not really no, aren't you wanting the manager to have final say on recruitment anyway?

 

[Perryqhill]

I didn't say that we didn't defend deep under poyet, but we were certainly more direct under advocaat which I think suited Coates.
I'm really not sure what you are arguing with? Are you saying there aren't any question marks over him?

If you're not saying we didn't defend deep under Poyet then why are you using it as a negative (or as a question mark over Coates) regarding his improvement in form?

Quite clearly I'm pointing out how you've been insisting that his improvement was due to his inefficiencies being covered up by being deep in numbers, defending for our lives, being more direct etc etc. And tbh apart from being a little bit more confident because of a few results and Dick keeping it more simple, I don't think that much actually changed. Yeah we got it forward more quickly, rather than deliberating over it first and then lumping it anyway, but it wasn't as if we went from playing like Arsenal to Wimbledon. Our style the entire last season when Poyet was here was absolute dross, there was very little football being played.

Of course there's question marks over him, but there's positive signs too. Something you are desperately trying to put a negative spin on. He looks a decent defender, need games and working on, but it's a start given what else we have.

 

[East Riding Mackem]

I didn't say that we didn't defend deep under poyet, but we were certainly more direct under advocaat which I think suited Coates.
I'm really not sure what you are arguing with? Are you saying there aren't any question marks over him?


Not really no, aren't you wanting the manager to have final say on recruitment anyway?

You don't find it odd that the man who purchases the players, the organisations key assets, isn't a key player in the organisation?

Sure you would agree there is some sense in making sure that the more senior employee handles negotiations to avoid any potential conflict of interest?

 

[sksk3021]

If you're not saying we didn't defend deep under Poyet then why are you using it as a negative (or as a question mark over Coates) regarding his improvement in form?

Quite clearly I'm pointing out how you've been insisting that his improvement was due to his inefficiencies being covered up by being deep in numbers, defending for our lives, being more direct etc etc. And tbh apart from being a little bit more confident because of a few results and Dick keeping it more simple, I don't think that much actually changed. Yeah we got it forward more quickly, rather than deliberating over it first and then lumping it anyway, but it wasn't as if we went from playing like Arsenal to Wimbledon. Our style the entire last season when Poyet was here was absolute dross, there was very little football being played.

Of course there's question marks over him, but there's positive signs too. Something you are desperately trying to put a negative spin on. He looks a decent defender, need games and working on, but it's a start given what else we have.

I'm hardly insisting his improvement was down to defending deep I said possibly in my opening post about it. Our football was dross for much of last season but our defenders spent a lot longer in possession of the ball at times (less and less as his reign progressed).
I didn't say there weren't positive signs in fact I said he had looked both good and poor at times last season.

You don't find it odd that the man who purchases the players, the organisations key assets, isn't a key player in the organisation?

Sure you would agree there is some sense in making sure that the more senior employee handles negotiations to avoid any potential conflict of interest?

You don't have to be on the board to be a key player in an organisation.
No idea what your second bit means. I'm just trying to understand what your reasons are for not liking the director of football model, but wanting a director who knows about football and how you see the difference between the two roles.

 

[theinediblebulk]

You don't find it odd that the man who purchases the players, the organisations key assets, isn't a key player in the organisation?

Sure you would agree there is some sense in making sure that the more senior employee handles negotiations to avoid any potential conflict of interest?

He has got a key position, he's just not on the board of directors. He won't be doing the deal itself, that'll be one of the board members signing it off.

 

[East Riding Mackem]

I'm hardly insisting his improvement was down to defending deep I said possibly in my opening post about it. Our football was dross for much of last season but our defenders spent a lot longer in possession of the ball at times (less and less as his reign progressed).
I didn't say there weren't positive signs in fact I said he had looked both good and poor at times last season.


You don't have to be on the board to be a key player in an organisation.
No idea what your second bit means. I'm just trying to understand what your reasons are for not liking the director of football model, but wanting a director who knows about football and how you see the difference between the two roles.

explained already mate, in plain English and without the need for misplaced patronising question marks. Anyway, it's an ill-defined role https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_football

 

[sksk3021]

explained already mate, in plain English and without the need for misplaced patronising question marks. Anyway, it's an ill-defined role https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_football

You don't like the dof model but do want someone on the board who knows football. His role it seems to me would be incredibly similar to the one congerton does now running the scouting network, negotiating deals etc. I don't know if I'm missing something or is the only difference that you think that person should be a board member?
I wasn't intending to be patronising if that's how it came across.