Atheist parents & their kids

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not spavin said:
tbf that's not how religion works. The practises are such that a child must become religious young to 'save' them. That is the right of the parents, just as parents are free to decide whether a child eats meat or whatever.

If a religious person decides that there child will be raised by the terms of that religion, that has absolutely nothing to do with you, me or anyone else. Similarly, it's your choice if you decide to raise your kids without faith.

It's not really up to atheists to declare religious indoctrination as a bad thing, and to move for it to be stopped. That seems to be lost on many of them.
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That's not really true unless you're expecting your kids to die during childhood which, given the advances of science and medicine, is rather less likely these days than back in the days when religion ruled the roost.


PS And that's not even getting into the dear old anabaptists ...
 


TartanMackem said:
There are certainly some very "militant" atheists out there. I enjoy the books and the debates of Dawkins as well as the late Christopher Hitchens, and I agree with a great deal of what they have to say on the subject. Where I don't quite agree witht them, is on the need to be so militant about the whole thing.
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When you say "militant", what do you mean? When people talk about "militant" Islamists (or other religions' followers), I take them to be referring to behaviour a lot worse than mildly abusive ranting on the Internet.

If "militant" followers of religion were all no worse than the very worst "militant atheists" the world would be a much better and safer place.
 
My parents didn't talk to us about religion, really, except to say that we could make up our own minds when we were adults. I still don't know what, if anything, they actually believe!

It may just be my own prejudice, but I don't think I'd tell my (hypothetical) children one way or another. If they come to the conclusion that there is no God, fine. If they want a religion, that's fine too. As long as they respect everyone's choices, it really shouldn't matter.
 
not spavin said:
tbf that's not how religion works. The practises are such that a child must become religious young to 'save' them. That is the right of the parents, just as parents are free to decide whether a child eats meat or whatever.

If a religious person decides that there child will be raised by the terms of that religion, that has absolutely nothing to do with you, me or anyone else. Similarly, it's your choice if you decide to raise your kids without faith.

It's not really up to atheists to declare religious indoctrination as a bad thing, and to move for it to be stopped. That seems to be lost on many of them.
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It's not 'saving' anyone, it's enslaving them to an evidenceless, often wicked doctrine, of which many cannot leave through fear. Anyone who thinks religious indoctrination is benign, shouldn't be anywhere near the education of any child.[DOUBLEPOST=1396283976][/DOUBLEPOST]
Occam's Razor said:
When you say "militant", what do you mean? When people talk about "militant" Islamists (or other religions' followers), I take them to be referring to behaviour a lot worse than mildly abusive ranting on the Internet.

If "militant" followers of religion were all no worse than the very worst "militant atheists" the world would be a much better and safer place.
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not spavin said:
I'm referring to a specific type of atheist - the type that can't just stop at the "there is no God" bit, and feel it's their purpose on this Earth to convince everyone of it. Dawkin's Missionaries.

Their belief appears to be that God does not exist because of science. I'd imagine religious people believe that science exists because of God. I cannot fathom why Atheists - famed as fans of logic - continue to believe that their point of view can somehow be argued to the point that people will become convinced of it. It's a very religious, almost evangelical mindset.
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A deadly combination of the 'atheism is a type of religion' gambit, plus the Dawkins straw man manoeuvre. Take that, non-believers!
 
Occam's Razor said:
When you say "militant", what do you mean? When people talk about "militant" Islamists (or other religions' followers), I take them to be referring to behaviour a lot worse than mildly abusive ranting on the Internet.

If "militant" followers of religion were all no worse than the very worst "militant atheists" the world would be a much better and safer place.
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While I realise the terminology is not particularly good or accurate, in general it is used for those atheist who are extremely aggressive in their opposition to religion and actively want to see it suppressed.
 
TartanMackem said:
While I realise the terminology is not particularly good or accurate, in general it is used for those atheist who are extremely aggressive in their opposition to religion and actively want to see it curtailed.
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I don't think you can claim much more, unless we have iconoclasts in our midsts we hadn't noticed.
 
not spavin said:
You are hugely naive if you don't think religion is a major aspect of British culture.

The church is still at the table because people want it there.
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Let the people vote for that to prove it, then.


& its important to allow British culture to live without the constant infiltration of religion. The church gets involved in things that have nothing to do with religion - so that they have their hands in everything, at all levels, at all times.
 
Narraback said:
It's not 'saving' anyone, it's enslaving them to an evidenceless, often wicked doctrine, of which many cannot leave through fear. Anyone who thinks religious indoctrination is benign, shouldn't be anywhere near the education of any child.[DOUBLEPOST=1396283976][/DOUBLEPOST]

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Writes books, gives lectures and is in favour of excluding religious groups from professional occupations.
 
John Steed said:
A lot of us don't attend church or believe in God but get married in church because it's a memorable day. It's hypocritical but harmless.
However I would have thought with your level of disdain towards Christianity and borderline hatred of all things Christian that no way would you enter a church to take part in any service. Didn't you call the religious morons on another thread?
I'm not having a go here but really I would have expected you to have a civil wedding given your strong anti Christianity stance..
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Given that there's a wedding and a christening on in almost every church in the land every weekend of the year, is it really harmless?

If it stopped, do you think it would have zero effect on the churches? I think it would decimate them.


This casual usage is clearly propping them up.
 
TartanMackem said:
While I realise the terminology is not particularly good or accurate, in general it is used for those atheist who are extremely aggressive in their opposition to religion and actively want to see it suppressed.
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I definitely don't want to see religion suppressed, although I am strongly opposed to many aspects of it in practice, such as the teaching of creationism as science in state-funded schools, or special privileges under the law for people with certain beliefs. Sometimes I may express these views in a way others might deem "aggressive", I suppose that depends on their interpretation. Still don't know whether I'm a "militant" atheist or not.
 
Occam's Razor said:
I definitely don't want to see religion suppressed, although I am strongly opposed to many aspects of it in practice, such as the teaching of creationism as science in state-funded schools, or special privileges under the law for people with certain beliefs. Sometimes I may express these views in a way others might deem "aggressive", I suppose that depends on their interpretation. Still don't know whether I'm a "militant" atheist or not.
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Do you write books and give lectures?
 
not spavin said:
I'd argue that atheism is a form of belief, in that it attests the knowledge of something that is unknowable. Science cannot disprove God, the two things operate within entirely different logical frameworks.
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The word atheist was chosen because it literally means "doesn't believe in a deity".

You might say that the people who claim to be atheists actually have a belief, but to be atheist means, by definition, they don't have a form of belief.
 
JonMc said:
Writes books, gives lectures and is in favour of excluding religious groups from professional occupations.
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Which religious groups, and which professional occupations? It's a genuine question, btw, as that surely can't always be a bad thing. I wouldn't want members of the Westboro Baptist Church teaching biology.
 
Occam's Razor said:
When you say "militant", what do you mean? When people talk about "militant" Islamists (or other religions' followers), I take them to be referring to behaviour a lot worse than mildly abusive ranting on the Internet.

If "militant" followers of religion were all no worse than the very worst "militant atheists" the world would be a much better and safer place.
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I'm so millitant. I'm forever blowing things up. Buildings, planes, the lot.


Oh, wait a minute, no, what I mean is that I occasionally have awkward conversations in real life, and also take part in discussions on web forums.

That's the one, not the bombs. Phew. Glad that's sorted.
 
Occam's Razor said:
I definitely don't want to see religion suppressed, although I am strongly opposed to many aspects of it in practice, such as the teaching of creationism as science in state-funded schools, or special privileges under the law for people with certain beliefs. Sometimes I may express these views in a way others might deem "aggressive", I suppose that depends on their interpretation. Still don't know whether I'm a "militant" atheist or not.
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'Militant' typically refers to people who think it's their job to educate people who have a different set of beliefs.

'Evangelical' probably works better. Or 'shitbox'.
 
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