The Waffen SS

[intothelight]

Originally Posted by walter mitty

was ridiculous trying to throw the fucker back over the fence

[walter mitty]

Originally Posted by Wierd Valley Mackem

As they were supplied with the best equipment by Himmler they were a very good fighting force. Elite Army Divisions such as Gross Deutschland were equal if not better as they had the same level of equipment.
Size for size Waffen SS and German Army units were superior in training and tactics than the Allied forces and also experience as they developed their tactics during the war. Russian Guard Divisions probably matched them after 42 but thats debatable as Russian Generals mainly went for sledgehammer tactics.
Some people are mixing up Waffen and Allgemeine SS. The Camps and internal security were made up of the latter, the former were the fighting arm (though some did both) of the SS.
A big percentage of the SS were made up of foreigners due to the restrictions on recruiting Germans by the Army. Also a lot of the troops were conscripts after restrictions were lifted.
At the end it was mainly Foreign SS units that defended Berlin.
Brutal and effective very well trained.

the russians learned very quickly after barbarossa

[UZZA_SPARTA]

Originally Posted by walter mitty

henry poole of saville row ,if you please

henry poole of saville row did military uniforms in the 19th century, but the SS uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss

Originally Posted by Wierd Valley Mackem

.... Some people are mixing up Waffen and Allgemeine SS. The Camps and internal security were made up of the latter,.....

i thought it was the other way around?

Originally Posted by Wierd Valley Mackem

.... A big percentage of the SS were made up of foreigners due to the restrictions on recruiting Germans by the Army. Also a lot of the troops were conscripts after restrictions were lifted. .....

you had some who had a higher rank within the SS than they did within the German army.
As the war progressed the SS grew in numbers due to foreign input, but a lot of Germans also made sidewards type moves to take up senior positions within the SS

The SS was originally from way before the outbreak of WWII when they were more political police than soldiers ... they had to be card carriers, and they did their own cull in the late 30's to get rid of people within the SS they considered "not pure", and then once the war started they set op foreign SS units (Lithuania, The Netherlands, etc) made up with volunteers from occupied countries.

The Waffen SS were more associated with being frontline military units, but as the war progressed all the SS units became one and people transferred within the SS from frontline, to admin function, to camp guard, to transport units.

The SS even had its own highly lucrative Economic and Administrative Department (SS-Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamt) who had a wide range of tasks leading up to and during the war, from guard duties at the concentration camps to selling all the gold they gathered at same camps, overseeing the slave labour at work camps or manufacturing plants, to driving crates of fanta (aka nazi cola!) or nestle chocolate to the troops! It was during the war that Nestle made its initial fortune by getting the contract from the SS to supply all chocolate to the Axis troops. They registered the company in Switzerland to safeguard their future.
The SS also had a say in how Kodak (the camera company) developed using "cheap" labour, and they also made a fortune when they developed Fanta at the German Coca Cola factories (which was later taken over by Coca Cola again once the war ended) - They now say that the German boss of Coca Cola, Max Keith, never joined the nazi party, but there is a lot of doubt about this as in that period you couldn't run a company if you weren't a member.

[smoker]

Originally Posted by Wierd Valley Mackem

As they were supplied with the best equipment by Himmler they were a very good fighting force. Elite Army Divisions such as Gross Deutschland were equal if not better as they had the same level of equipment.
Size for size Waffen SS and German Army units were superior in training and tactics than the Allied forces and also experience as they developed their tactics during the war. Russian Guard Divisions probably matched them after 42 but thats debatable as Russian Generals mainly went for sledgehammer tactics.
Some people are mixing up Waffen and Allgemeine SS. The Camps and internal security were made up of the latter, the former were the fighting arm (though some did both) of the SS.
A big percentage of the SS were made up of foreigners due to the restrictions on recruiting Germans by the Army. Also a lot of the troops were conscripts after restrictions were lifted.
At the end it was mainly Foreign SS units that defended Berlin.
Brutal and effective very well trained.

Don't think they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Stur...de_Dirlewanger

[Joe Fabulous]

What about these Clownshoes then?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ag-sleeve.html

Originally Posted by walter mitty

stalin wasnt mad, he was a thug, a mafioso thug i'm not sure if stalin believed in anything

lots of mafia bosses dont live like kings btw

The fags got him in the end like.

[Maxnormal]

Originally Posted by smoker

Both.

You can witness the handiwork of Waffen SS division 'Das Reich' at Oradour in France and it is an abomination.



Two thirds of the waffen SS were non-Aryan. I don't believe they bought into Nazi racial theory at all. Just a bunch of dehumanised bullies given carte blanche to ignore the rules of decency.

yeah at the end they were. once they realized they were on a sticky wicket ('43, Kursk IMO) they had to find replacements from anywhere they could... Cossacks, Balkan Muslims, Baltic states etc all came to fight. the one thing they all had in common: hatred of communism. Himmler's SS ideal went out the window here...

[Wierd Valley Mackem]

Originally Posted by smoker

Don't think they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Stur...de_Dirlewanger

Its more complex than whats on that page.
The Dirlewanger Brigade were never part of the Waffen SS structure though they came under the heading of Waffen SS. They were mainly an independent anti partisan security unit. They may have ended up fighting but then all units did at some point when things collapsed.
The same as Leibstandarte were independent, though part of the Waffen SS. They were Hitlers Bodyguard separate but part of the SS. Its way more complicated than whats on WIKI pages.

[smoker]

Originally Posted by Maxnormal

yeah at the end they were. once they realized they were on a sticky wicket ('43, Kursk IMO) they had to find replacements from anywhere they could... Cossacks, Balkan Muslims, Baltic states etc all came to fight. the one thing they all had in common: hatred of communism. Himmler's SS ideal went out the window here...

Ethnic Germans from conquered countries were allowed in from 1940. 14 out of 65 men tried for the Oradour massacre (and given amnesty due to protestations of their people) were from Alsace.

As an aside, SS stands for Schutzstaffel which equates roughly to Defence League in English.

Originally Posted by Wierd Valley Mackem

Its more complex than whats on that page.
The Dirlewanger Brigade were never part of the Waffen SS structure though they came under the heading of Waffen SS. They were mainly an independent anti partisan security unit. They may have ended up fighting but then all units did at some point when things collapsed.
The same as Leibstandarte were independent, though part of the Waffen SS. They were Hitlers Bodyguard separate but part of the SS. Its way more complicated than whats on WIKI pages.

All Waffen SS were engaged in a mixture of anti-partisan activity and frontline operation. The Dirlewanger Brigade were employed almost exclusively on anti-partisan because they were poor frontline soldiers and took a hammering when they faced the red army.

What explanation would you give for the following atrocities:

Marzabotto
St Anna di Stazema
Tulle + Oradour

No Dirlewanger brigade involved

[Maxnormal]

Originally Posted by smoker

Ethnic Germans from conquered countries were allowed in from 1940. 14 out of 65 men tried for the Oradour massacre (and given amnesty due to protestations of their people) were from Alsace.

As an aside, SS stands for Schutzstaffel which equates roughly to Defence League in English.



All Waffen SS were engaged in a mixture of anti-partisan activity and frontline operation. The Dirlewanger Brigade were employed almost exclusively on anti-partisan because they were poor frontline soldiers and took a hammering when they faced the red army.

What explanation would you give for the following atrocities:

Marzabotto
St Anna di Stazema
Tulle + Oradour

No Dirlewanger brigade involved

does it barlz.
Schutz = to guard / protect
Staffel = collective noun for a squadron

[Mackem Tommy]

Originally Posted by Maxnormal

does it barlz.
Schutz = to guard / protect
Staffel = collective noun for a squadron

Errrrrrr....Isn't that roughly the same thing?