Fast Bowling

[The Breen Machine]

Originally Posted by chunkylover53

Agree with that.

Saying that, I think the point was more that the quality of fast medium/fast/seam bowlers in general is poor....not just the out and out quicks

Exactly, there's only Steyn and Edwards out of that list who are regularly rapid, the rest are fast medium, around the 85mph-88mph bracket, and Khan, Kallis and Martin bowl about as quick as Ravi Bopara's fast delivery.

It's a poor list, very poor and the main reasons are the quality of pitches and authorities wanting games to go 5 days, ridiculous international scheduling and simply a lack of talent. EB keeps making the point about no-one wanting to play test cricket anymore but I don't buy into that - how many out and out quicks play T20 only? - Malinga who is isn't regularly rapid, Tait who's played about 5 tests for Australia and Brett Lee who's 36. Only Malinga has left test cricket for the money IMO, Tait couldn't handle the rigours of test cricket even before the IPL took off.

[essex boy]

Originally Posted by The Breen Machine

Exactly, there's only Steyn and Edwards out of that list who are regularly rapid, the rest are fast medium, around the 85mph-88mph bracket, and Khan, Kallis and Martin bowl about as quick as Ravi Bopara's fast delivery.

It's a poor list, very poor and the main reasons are the quality of pitches and authorities wanting games to go 5 days, ridiculous international scheduling and simply a lack of talent. EB keeps making the point about no-one wanting to play test cricket anymore but I don't buy into that - how many out and out quicks play T20 only? - Malinga who is isn't regularly rapid, Tait who's played about 5 tests for Australia and Brett Lee who's 36. Only Malinga has left test cricket for the money IMO, Tait couldn't handle the rigours of test cricket even before the IPL took off.

Bond and Nannes also.

Nannes is seriously quick seen him twice 'live' and was a yard or two quicker than Finn

[The Breen Machine]

Originally Posted by essex boy

Bond and Nannes also.

Nannes is seriously quick seen him twice 'live' and was a yard or two quicker than Finn

He's quick like but he's also not a top class 4 day bowler, he's just a good limited overs death bowler.

Bond was a class act who's body couldn't handle any regular cricket - 18 tests in 9 years proved that.

Neither have left test cricket to play T20 as one has never been picked for a test match in his career, and the other was majorly injury prone.

And they are both mid-late 30's.

[essex boy]

Originally Posted by The Breen Machine

He's quick like but he's also not a top class 4 day bowler, he's just a good limited overs death bowler.

Bond was a class act who's body couldn't handle any regular cricket - 18 tests in 9 years proved that.

Neither have left test cricket to play T20 as one has never been picked for a test match in his career, and the other was majorly injury prone.

And they are both mid-late 30's.

missing in the point IMO

Its not thye have left test cricket its that players have an alternative to test cricket which prolongs there career and offers more money. Without 20/20 I would suggest Nannes would be opening the bowling for their test side now. Lets be honest most test class bowler were also pretty decent one day bowlers ala Donald, Ambrose etc

If its whizzing past your nostril at 90mph plus its irrelevant what form of cricket it is, it aint very nice to face

[The Breen Machine]

Originally Posted by essex boy

missing in the point IMO

Its not thye have left test cricket its that players have an alternative to test cricket which prolongs there career and offers more money. Without 20/20 I would suggest Nannes would be opening the bowling for their test side now. Lets be honest most test class bowler were also pretty decent one day bowlers ala Donald, Ambrose etc

If its whizzing past your nostril at 90mph plus its irrelevant what form of cricket it is, it aint very nice to face

Nannes has never made himself unavailable for test cricket though has he?, he's simply never been picked.

Your last point is right, but you are wrong to suggest that T20 cricket has taken top fast bolwlers from the test scene. Bond only plays T20 because he's 36 and his body could never stand up to the rigours of test matches even when he was younger. Only Malinga has decided to pack in tests at a young age and although he says his body can't handle it, there's probably a financial mindset there aswell. Every other decent fast bowler around now of a reasonable age is still playing test cricket, there's just simply not enough of them.

[essex boy]

Originally Posted by The Breen Machine

Nannes has never made himself unavailable for test cricket though has he?, he's simply never been picked.

Your last point is right, but you are wrong to suggest that T20 cricket has taken top fast bolwlers from the test scene. Bond only plays T20 because he's 36 and his body could never stand up to the rigours of test matches even when he was younger. Only Malinga has decided to pack in tests at a young age and although he says his body can't handle it, there's probably a financial mindset there aswell. Every other decent fast bowler around now of a reasonable age is still playing test cricket, there's just simply not enough of them.

Dirk Nannes - 93 wickets @ 25.02 in 23 first class games.

Brett Lee got 76 test matches despite averaging 28.22 in first class cricket.

Nannes wouldnt have got selected because he decided early on to concentrate on 20/20 of which he has now played 118 20/20 a record I believe.

Siddle (28.22) and Johnson (30.95) both have inferior first class records which is a good comparison to make as they would have plaeyd there first class cricket on similar pitches and would be direct rivals in the Aussie test side should Nannes have concentrated on 4 day domestic cricket.

Whilst not saying he would have been a 500 test wicket merchant he would have improved the standard of test cricket bowling

[rentaghost]

Originally Posted by essex boy

disagree.

Genuine fast bowlers are a yard or two quicker

Anyone remember when Nick Knight was batting on his stumps against Akhtar to give him that fraction extra time to see it

I asked James Foster who was the quickest he had faced in a county cricket 5 years ago or so...............Simon Jones

The reason why fast bowlers have vanished is because of the international schedule. When Ambrose and Donald were tearing in we would play two or three lest tests per year and 20/20 cricket hadnt surfaced

Increase in quantity of cricket has resulted in a decrease in the quality

Some really valid points there. Due to the hectic international schedule bowlers are coached to bowl a sustainable action that isnt really conducive to rapid, quick bowling. Thats not to say a rapid quick bowler is a better bowler than someone who can bowl high 80s and can swing the ball late - Hadlee is probably the best bowler I have ever seen for example and Marshall was an even better bowler when dropped his pace a fraction.

Whatever the arguments the lack of rapid bowlers are a loss to the world game.

[ProfessionalMackem]

Good thread, Athers and Nasser had a good yarn about the same topic on sky yesterday. They came to the conclusion 'off air' (sad bastards they admitted) that they should have an extra class of speed to bulk up the quicks. Have 85mph+ 'Fast' and 90mph+ would become 'Extra Fast' or something.

Athers went on to say that the argument he and Nasser had was classifying Finn. One of them wanted him rated as just Fast and the other one 'Extra Fast'. Personally it's great to see one of our bowlers put on a yard of pace, and if he can keep his averagish speed up above 90mph+, then he's 'ExtraFast' for me.

[chunkylover53]

Originally Posted by ProfessionalMackem

Good thread, Athers and Nasser had a good yarn about the same topic on sky yesterday. They came to the conclusion 'off air' (sad bastards they admitted) that they should have an extra class of speed to bulk up the quicks. Have 85mph+ 'Fast' and 90mph+ would become 'Extra Fast' or something.

Athers went on to say that the argument he and Nasser had was classifying Finn. One of them wanted him rated as just Fast and the other one 'Extra Fast'. Personally it's great to see one of our bowlers put on a yard of pace, and if he can keep his averagish speed up above 90mph+, then he's 'ExtraFast' for me.

Extra Fast sounds shit

I would go with "Brown Kegs Fast"

[mikemanc]

Originally Posted by essex boy

Dirk Nannes - 93 wickets @ 25.02 in 23 first class games.

Brett Lee got 76 test matches despite averaging 28.22 in first class cricket.

Nannes wouldnt have got selected because he decided early on to concentrate on 20/20 of which he has now played 118 20/20 a record I believe.

Siddle (28.22) and Johnson (30.95) both have inferior first class records which is a good comparison to make as they would have plaeyd there first class cricket on similar pitches and would be direct rivals in the Aussie test side should Nannes have concentrated on 4 day domestic cricket.

Whilst not saying he would have been a 500 test wicket merchant he would have improved the standard of test cricket bowling

If Nannes was so good why was he still playing for Holland in 2009?? He played his first 1st class game when he was 30. It's nothing to do with him deciding to prioritise T20.

Edit - should have read on!

"In February 2010 Dirk Nannes retired from first class cricket. He said, "Having been able to play just one game in the longer format this season due to injury, this decision will allow me to concentrate on 50 over and Twenty20 cricket and extend my career with Victoria and Australia".[4] The news was generally well received by fans as Dirk had battled through many injuries in his short career."

So he's quit 1st class cricket because of injuries.