Class Structure In England's Football

[My Boy Harry]

I'm not sure how far I'll put this point across correctly but I sense that the English game is moving or has moved from a working class sport to a middle class sport.

From my vantage point that seems to have spread into the stadiums, the boardrooms but hasnt yet spread to the footballers themselves, who still mainly seem to be from working class backgrounds.

That of course isnt the issue other than the English working class lads who appear to play football nowdays cant understand simple tactical formations and cant think on their feet.

Not only that but the footbalers have so little going for them educationally that football clubs are now acting as an educational provider for them, which in effect tells you about the footballer's educational abilities.

could there be a link between a footballer's educational ability and his inability to understand simple tactical formations and be flexible on the pitch?

should football clubs be providing an education to lads who should already have qualifications?

[Flavonoids]

Educational (certificated) achievement and by extension academic ability has no bearing on football or sports intelligence. Historically or currently.

Of course it's another string to the bow of rolling news channels etc. - oh look, David James is so clever, he paints (like a child) and everything.

[norfolk mackem]

i have wondered if maybe we should have a minimum IQ level to qualify for playing for england.

i think maybe 3 of our starting 11 would pass.

[Il Postino Pat]

Well yes but think about the educational opportunities to the average Englishman compared to that of the average Brazlian. I also feel like it's the parent's responsibility to provide an education for their children. If the parents put a greater emphasis on sport than education then fair enough. I think sportsmen, actors anywhere where there is an emphasis on one particular discipline in the hope of becoming a professional earning a lot of money will have negative effects on their education, it's the nature of the beast.

As for moving form working class to middle class game. Italia 90 started it when it became more celebrity like in England and the Premier League era as fueled it. Is there a motivation and desire for the middle class youth to become footballers through hard work and dedication? The best footballer tend to be associated with hard upbringings, grateful for what they can get and desperate to achieve their ambition. Comfortable lifestyles sometimes does not promote that.

[SteveB]

Originally Posted by Flavonoids

Educational (certificated) achievement and by extension academic ability has no bearing on football or sports intelligence. Historically or currently.

Of course it's another string to the bow of rolling news channels etc. - oh look, David James is so clever, he paints (like a child) and everything.

If you had two lads with similar abilities- one was thick as shit and the other was a bright spark who didn't need telling 50 times what to do and still not manage it - which would you choose?

My old team used to regularly beat better teams (sorry, teams with more gifted players) than us simply because we understood how to play football, hold positions, finish the game with more than 10 men on a weekly basis etc

It was amazing how easy it was to wind up a thick lad till he got himself sent off

[Stevie Freestein II]

Brazil
Argentina
Africa

Enough said.

Originally Posted by My Boy Harry

I'm not sure how far I'll put this point across correctly but I sense that the English game is moving or has moved from a working class sport to a middle class sport.

From my vantage point that seems to have spread into the stadiums, the boardrooms but hasnt yet spread to the footballers themselves, who still mainly seem to be from working class backgrounds.

That of course isnt the issue other than the English working class lads who appear to play football nowdays cant understand simple tactical formations and cant think on their feet.

Not only that but the footbalers have so little going for them educationally that football clubs are now acting as an educational provider for them, which in effect tells you about the footballer's educational abilities.

could there be a link between a footballer's educational ability and his inability to understand simple tactical formations and be flexible on the pitch?

should football clubs be providing an education to lads who should already have qualifications?

Sorry MBH. i have sympathy for some of your views but this one has no legs.
The vast majority of lads who reach elite level of football, think of nothing else but.
By the time they get to 15, school is just something that interferes with football training and playing games. Always has been, always will.
Martin peters, booby moore, Nobby stiles, alan ball et al while not bad lads off the field wouldnt have mustered an o' level between them.
The likes of Socrates, Gordon taylor, steve heighway, coppell are very much the exception not the rule

[Howard the Duck]

Originally Posted by Flavonoids

Educational (certificated) achievement and by extension academic ability has no bearing on football or sports intelligence. Historically or currently.

Of course it's another string to the bow of rolling news channels etc. - oh look, David James is so clever, he paints (like a child) and everything.

And spot on with the first paragraph.

[Flavonoids]

Originally Posted by SteveB

If you had two lads with similar abilities- one was thick as shit and the other was a bright spark who didn't need telling 50 times what to do and still not manage it - which would you choose?

My old team used to regularly beat better teams (sorry, teams with more gifted players) than us simply because we understood how to play football, hold positions, finish the game with more than 10 men on a weekly basis etc

It was amazing how easy it was to wind up a thick lad till he got himself sent off

Two lads with 'similar' abilities? I'm not sure what you mean, that's just a wholly invented and specious situation. There are better players and poorer players, some are thick some aren't, some can follow instruction, some can't, some are instinctive and others a regimented.

I'd choose the best players that best suited the game I wanted to play - regardless of their social or educational background.

[Il Postino Pat]

Originally Posted by SteveB

If you had two lads with similar abilities- one was thick as shit and the other was a bright spark who didn't need telling 50 times what to do and still not manage it - which would you choose?

My old team used to regularly beat better teams (sorry, teams with more gifted players) than us simply because we understood how to play football, hold positions, finish the game with more than 10 men on a weekly basis etc

It was amazing how easy it was to wind up a thick lad till he got himself sent off

How many legitimately 'clever' people do you know of that have risen to world class level? It's not their understanding of how the game is played that is a problem, it's naive to suggest that we sitting in our armchairs know how the game works better than those that are making a very decent living playing it. General intelligence is an extra in football not a must, football intelligence is a completely different attribute.