Advice on lifting

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Ward1973

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So I joined a gym last week and the helpful staff said they could whip up a routine to follow in order to bulk up.

I do want to point out that a lot of the equipment are machines that they have me using, which is good because there is mostly no room to use free weights as most lads are using them all the time.

Anyway they have recommended I start with 2 sets of 12 reps on 25kg for 1 month (I am skinny btw)
Now I am doing those pretty easily with all machines.
So the advice I need is basically "should I be going ahead with their plan"
Or should I try upping the kg's more? My fear is if I move to 30kgs or even heavier and I can't reach 2 sets of 12 am I doing damage to muscle or am I not getting the max out of the sessions at the gym by doing less with heavier weights?

It's really a mind fuck to me like
 


If you reaching 12 without struggling then up the weight. You should be aiming for 8-12 reps. If you are getting to 13 and beyond before failure then up the weight.
 
PhilSAFC said:
If you reaching 12 without struggling then up the weight. You should be aiming for 8-12 reps. If you are getting to 13 and beyond before failure then up the weight.
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cheers mate. I just needed to hear it like.
 
Ward1973 said:
So I joined a gym last week and the helpful staff said they could whip up a routine to follow in order to bulk up.

.....
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!

There must be some free weights that you can use? If someone is using something then politely ask them how many sets they have left, obviously when they aren't lifting anything. Can you visit at another time?

I started off using machines but free weights are a lot better.

Have a read about the Stronglifts 5x5 programme that utilises free weights but I suppose you could do them on machines if you really had to.

IMHO 12 reps is far too many and will increase endurance but not muscle.
 
jackynutmeg said:
I was going to offer some valuable advice from my 20+ years of weight training but because you started off with 'So' i'm not going to now.
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I was very close to refusing to impart my 12 months of sort of weight training because of the same reason. I'm glad we think alike. If the faux pas was referring to SAFC as 'Sunderland Football Club' it'd have been a total no-goer.
 
Just started a gym out here in Holland, the trainer has me doing 3 x 15 reps of everything from legs up to shoulders. Going to lower it and go for heavier weights in around a month....hopefully
 
I teach people to follow the 8-12 rep rule.

example

Set 1
12 reps easy, go heavier
Set 2
12 reps easy , go heavier ( wouldn't even count these as as set if they were really easy)
Set 3 (set 1)
12 Reps, just managed. (stay same weight)
Set 4 (set 2)
10 reps, really tested you. (stay same weight)
Set 5 (set 3)
8 reps, really struggled (make weight lighter you're getting weaker each set)
Set 6 (set 4)
9 reps, really struggled (drop set if you want to finish yourself off :lol:

Explanation...

Now I know straight away some are thinking 6 sets!! Well this is for a novice been careful trying to find their weight. If you asses each set after you do it you can make sure your next set is your best set. remember you get weaker each set so thats why you make the decision based on how well you perform. Ideally you don't want to get 12 reps! if you struggled then you've found the right weight.

There are huge debates on what the best set/rep range is to follow over time you will find what works best for you. For now stick tot he 8-12 and it's a good way to learn you. I've learnt now everyones genes are different and some progress better with higher rep range, and some better with heavy lifting. This is why there is such a debate, and also add to the fact the majority typing most shit on the net are on gear and aren't really sure if it's there rep range getting good results or the gear ;)

For me personally, I don't get caught up too much on set and reps, I just concentrate on fkcuking the muscle up as much as possible, failure on every set, usually always finished by a drop set on the last set. For shoulder I do high reps and burn out, for back I like to go as heavy as possible, chest is all about the tempo. And abs is all about extreme weight. Again many say don't train to failure etc... over time you find out what works best for you.
 
supersesh said:
I teach people to follow the 8-12 rep rule.

example

Set 1
12 reps easy, go heavier
Set 2
12 reps easy , go heavier ( wouldn't even count these as as set if they were really easy)
Set 3 (set 1)
12 Reps, just managed. (stay same weight)
Set 4 (set 2)
10 reps, really tested you. (stay same weight)
Set 5 (set 3)
8 reps, really struggled (make weight lighter you're getting weaker each set)
Set 6 (set 4)
9 reps, really struggled (drop set if you want to finish yourself off :lol:

Explanation...

Now I know straight away some are thinking 6 sets!! Well this is for a novice been careful trying to find their weight. If you asses each set after you do it you can make sure your next set is your best set. remember you get weaker each set so thats why you make the decision based on how well you perform. Ideally you don't want to get 12 reps! if you struggled then you've found the right weight.

There are huge debates on what the best set/rep range is to follow over time you will find what works best for you. For now stick tot he 8-12 and it's a good way to learn you. I've learnt now everyones genes are different and some progress better with higher rep range, and some better with heavy lifting. This is why there is such a debate, and also add to the fact the majority typing most shit on the net are on gear and aren't really sure if it's there rep range getting good results or the gear ;)

For me personally, I don't get caught up too much on set and reps, I just concentrate on fkcuking the muscle up as much as possible, failure on every set, usually always finished by a drop set on the last set. For shoulder I do high reps and burn out, for back I like to go as heavy as possible, chest is all about the tempo. And abs is all about extreme weight. Again many say don't train to failure etc... over time you find out what works best for you.
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Yo Richie ....

Ta for that I might give it a go but isn't stronglifts 5x5 a lot easier for beginners? Not much to think about apart from learning good form which should happen when starting from a low base on squats, bench etc. and they add on 2.5kg per session.

Is working to failure (bold above) any better or worse than progressively adding more weight?

Cheers.
 
supersesh said:
I teach people to follow the 8-12 rep rule.

example

Set 1
12 reps easy, go heavier
Set 2
12 reps easy , go heavier ( wouldn't even count these as as set if they were really easy)
Set 3 (set 1)
12 Reps, just managed. (stay same weight)
Set 4 (set 2)
10 reps, really tested you. (stay same weight)
Set 5 (set 3)
8 reps, really struggled (make weight lighter you're getting weaker each set)
Set 6 (set 4)
9 reps, really struggled (drop set if you want to finish yourself off :lol:

Explanation...

Now I know straight away some are thinking 6 sets!! Well this is for a novice been careful trying to find their weight. If you asses each set after you do it you can make sure your next set is your best set. remember you get weaker each set so thats why you make the decision based on how well you perform. Ideally you don't want to get 12 reps! if you struggled then you've found the right weight.

There are huge debates on what the best set/rep range is to follow over time you will find what works best for you. For now stick tot he 8-12 and it's a good way to learn you. I've learnt now everyones genes are different and some progress better with higher rep range, and some better with heavy lifting. This is why there is such a debate, and also add to the fact the majority typing most shit on the net are on gear and aren't really sure if it's there rep range getting good results or the gear ;)

For me personally, I don't get caught up too much on set and reps, I just concentrate on fkcuking the muscle up as much as possible, failure on every set, usually always finished by a drop set on the last set. For shoulder I do high reps and burn out, for back I like to go as heavy as possible, chest is all about the tempo. And abs is all about extreme weight. Again many say don't train to failure etc... over time you find out what works best for you.
Click to expand...

For a novice, training a complex movement to failure when the focus should be on enforcing good motor patterns isn't an especially good idea. So I'd argue that 8-12 reps, risking failure, isn't the best way to learn. It's a great way of learning how strong you are, but you're possibly going to pick up some sloppy form along the way.

The best rep range is dictated by what your goal is and shouldn't necessarily remain the same over time. And then yes, an element of knowing what works well for you. No way a novice can know that though. I wouldn't say 6 sets, counting four of those as working sets, is especially abnormal. Most beginners programmes which focus on barbell exercises use a similar number but with a lower rep range and with a focus on not failing until you're several months into the programme.

What you're essentially describing above is using your rate of perceived exertion. It's something I now use after a few months of Titus doing my programming but again, I'm not sure it's helpful to a beginner. I'm not sure to what extent a beginner can 'know' how much they're pushing themselves. I suppose that's where the objective opinions of a coach like yourself comes in and becomes really important. For someone training themselves, I'd be willing to bet that 75% of the time they're exerting themselves far less than they 'claim' they are.

jackynutmeg said:
for beginners stick to compound lifts...4 sets of 6
deads, rows, presses, squats, etc
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This. Build a solid as fuck base on 5 basic barbell exercises. No need to fail early on.

Being good at those exercises will see you right for years to come.
 
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