ASHES 11

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Mrjardine said:
Root will end up opening for England again at some point mark my words. He's established now and batting up at three is a natural progression for him.
You keep going on about Ballance and this young cricketer of year award. I give you bishoo and Finn as previous winners. It's not a right of passage to become a top player.
I actually like ballance as well mind and do think he'll end up being a decent player for us but to even consider picking him over KP is ludicrous.
Wonder who the Aussies would rather see on the team sheet...............
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Passage?

So we drop him for doing absolutely nothing wrong? Absolutely ludicrous.

Root is not an opener, nowhere near it currently, doesn't have the technique for it. He's a perfect middle order player, and needs to develop as so

Dropping Ballance would be so ludicrous it's mental

What on earth has KP got to do with ballance? He bats at 3

I'm glad you are not a selector put it that way.

Bri said:
I think people or some people are writing off Broad and Anderson too early. Yes they weren't at their standard in the WC but maybe that's because they had just returned from injury and weren't bowling fit. I know it was said they were both down on pace and that should be put down to either fitness or rhythm or a combination of both.

They're both young enough to have a few more years in the team. Just watch how they go in WI then make a judgement.

Woakes is a puzzler. He's done well and on performances wouldn't deserve to be dropped - but surely we have to aim at a higher level and that means either Mills or Jordan neither of which convince either, maybe they just need time. Maybe time for Plunkett.
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I honestly have no idea what the World Cup has to do with broad and andersons test form

Anderson was fantastic last summer, people just choose to ignore that
 


johnson said:
I honestly have no idea what the World Cup has to do with broad and andersons test form
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Pace? Control? For those two it's appropriate - if therre ever was a series when when taking wickets counted it was this one and and they didn't do it.

Just reviewing last season's tests neither was fantastic. 7 test matches and each took a fifer only once - they were upto the standards of Stokes, Ali and Plunkett but not way out ahead. And remember Sri Lanka and India are great one-day sides but they are not great test teams outside the sub continent.

And there I was defending the critics of B+A but I cannot agree that Anderson was 'fantastic' last season, he was good but we've seen far far better.
 
Cook
Root
Trott
KP
Bell
Stokes
Borthwick
Buttler
Broad
Mills
Anderson
 
Bri said:
Pace? Control? For those two it's appropriate - if therre ever was a series when when taking wickets counted it was this one and and they didn't do it.

Just reviewing last season's tests neither was fantastic. 7 test matches and each took a fifer only once - they were upto the standards of Stokes, Ali and Plunkett but not way out ahead. And remember Sri Lanka and India are great one-day sides but they are not great test teams outside the sub continent.

And there I was defending the critics of B+A but I cannot agree that Anderson was 'fantastic' last season, he was good but we've seen far far better.
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I don't agree, Anderson was brilliant I thought bar about 1 test match, Anderson has never been quick

People like to slag off these 2, but there is nobody remotely close to them in England sorry

Andy Reids Love Chil said:
Cook
Root
Trott
KP
Bell
Stokes
Borthwick
Buttler
Broad
Mills
Anderson
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Root as opener? FFS :lol:
 
johnson said:
I don't agree, Anderson was brilliant I thought bar about 1 test match, Anderson has never been quick

People like to slag off these 2, but there is nobody remotely close to them in England sorry



Root as opener? FFS :lol:
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Agree with you totally about the bowlers,however think Root is a class act who is capable of opening.

Granted he has failed there in the past,but that was more to do with him been thrown in at the deep end against quality attack when probably not quite ready.

IMO that does not mean we should write him off as a opener as think more than capable.
 
johnson said:
Passage?

So we drop him for doing absolutely nothing wrong? Absolutely ludicrous.

Root is not an opener, nowhere near it currently, doesn't have the technique for it. He's a perfect middle order player, and needs to develop as so

Dropping Ballance would be so ludicrous it's mental

What on earth has KP got to do with ballance? He bats at 3

I'm glad you are not a selector put it that way.



I honestly have no idea what the World Cup has to do with broad and andersons test form

Anderson was fantastic last summer, people just choose to ignore that
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Joe root has opened his entire career man. It was his form opening for Yorkshire that got him selected.
He will end up opening again in the next 18 month mark my words.
Somebody has to drop out for pieterson. They simply have to and to me ballance would be one to go.
Aussies will be laughing their cocks off that KP is likely to miss out.
What you're saying regarding not dropping ballance because he's done nothing wrong is like saying you would never change a winning side!
George Bailey did little wrong but as soon as Clarke was fit he was out and Clarke rightfully back in for World Cup.
No room for sentiment in sport its about winning and having KP in our side for Ashes gives us a better chance. Simple as that.
 
Mrjardine said:
Joe root has opened his entire career man. It was his form opening for Yorkshire that got him selected.
He will end up opening again in the next 18 month mark my words.
Somebody has to drop out for pieterson. They simply have to and to me ballance would be one to go.
Aussies will be laughing their cocks off that KP is likely to miss out.
What you're saying regarding not dropping ballance because he's done nothing wrong is like saying you would never change a winning side!
George Bailey did little wrong but as soon as Clarke was fit he was out and Clarke rightfully back in for World Cup.
No room for sentiment in sport its about winning and having KP in our side for Ashes gives us a better chance. Simple as that.
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More shite as usual

Ballance has been exceptional, I think there are only 5 players who have more runs for england at this stage, and most of them are about 100 years ago

It is totally unjustifiable to drop him, he hasn't "done nothing wrong" he has excelled

Root is not an international opener, he has admitted this himself as has his coach Jason Gillespie

His game is perfectly suited to the middle overs

The fact you would open with him in the ashes, where he had badly struggled is mental

Bore off about KP will you, it's old hat, he hasn't scored any 4 day runs for well over a year. So he isn't in discussion at the minute
 
johnson said:
More shite as usual

Ballance has been exceptional, I think there are only 5 players who have more runs for england at this stage, and most of them are about 100 years ago

It is totally unjustifiable to drop him, he hasn't "done nothing wrong" he has excelled

Root is not an international opener, he has admitted this himself as has his coach Jason Gillespie

His game is perfectly suited to the middle overs

The fact you would open with him in the ashes, where he had badly struggled is mental

Bore off about KP will you, it's old hat, he hasn't scored any 4 day runs for well over a year. So he isn't in discussion at the minute
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You are using a stat for a bloke who hasn't even played 10 tests FFS!
Seen as you like a stat so much here's another one for you. At the time of dropping KP no English player had scored more runs for England than him full stop!
I'd suggest that shows the selectors when they see fit can disregard form when it comes to selection!
Your comment regarding Gillespie is complete fabricated nonsense as this linked article shows!
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/27048611
 
Mrjardine said:
You are using a stat for a bloke who hasn't even played 10 tests FFS!
Seen as you like a stat so much here's another one for you. At the time of dropping KP no English player had scored more runs for England than him full stop!
I'd suggest that shows the selectors when they see fit can disregard form when it comes to selection!
Your comment regarding Gillespie is complete fabricated nonsense as this linked article shows!
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/27048611
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I definitely read Jason Gillespie say the exact opposite after last summer, I will find the article

I don't think you would find a pundit or ex player or anyone who would think that moving Root from 5 to open for the Ashes would be a good idea, its a f***ing mental idea

And what has KP got to do with anything? I didn't drop him mate, but he hasn't scored any 4 day runs in well over a year, so he should;t be anywhere near the side at the minute.

You can try and rewrite history all you like, but Ballance has been fantastic for England, and you can only judge him on what you see so far

No other country in the world would drop a player after a start like that, so why should we?
 
On the Joe Root thing.

I think there's a non-trivial chance that Cook won't be captain for the coming Ashes or perhaps for the Ashes but gets his marching orders soon after.

If that's a possibility and I think it is, then Root is being touted as the next one in the firing line and if that happens you should put him in a batting position where he has the greatest chance to succeed both with the bat and also with captaincy. So following my patented rule of how to pick a captain (not an opener and not a fast bowler and not a wickie unless you can possibly help it) leave Root in the middle order.
 
johnson said:
I definitely read Jason Gillespie say the exact opposite after last summer, I will find the article

I don't think you would find a pundit or ex player or anyone who would think that moving Root from 5 to open for the Ashes would be a good idea, its a f***ing mental idea

And what has KP got to do with anything? I didn't drop him mate, but he hasn't scored any 4 day runs in well over a year, so he should;t be anywhere near the side at the minute.

You can try and rewrite history all you like, but Ballance has been fantastic for England, and you can only judge him on what you see so far

No other country in the world would drop a player after a start like that, so why should we?
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I didn't say open with root I said open with trott and put root at three as it's the next logical step in his inevitable ascent to top of the order.
KP has to play he simply has to. You say no other country in world would drop Ballance after his start but what other country in world would drop it's best batsman?
As for rewriting history what on earth are you talking about? I have no issue with ballance I just think KP is a better player. Pretty much like the rest of the world do apart from some idiotic Englishman (and you) in their ivory towers.
If you wish to keep ballance in then fine but you have to find a spot for KP and he's the most logical person to leave out.
 
Pietersen has to play. It's outrageous that a struggling side refuse to pick their best player. The Australians will be laughing their cocks off if he's not picked.
 
Mrjardine said:
I didn't say open with root I said open with trott and put root at three as it's the next logical step in his inevitable ascent to top of the order.
KP has to play he simply has to. You say no other country in world would drop Ballance after his start but what other country in world would drop it's best batsman?
As for rewriting history what on earth are you talking about? I have no issue with ballance I just think KP is a better player. Pretty much like the rest of the world do apart from some idiotic Englishman (and you) in their ivory towers.
If you wish to keep ballance in then fine but you have to find a spot for KP and he's the most logical person to leave out.
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What has you wanting KP back got to do with Ballance, who has excelled at 3, Root is a middle order batsman

So you should be dropping Root or Bell

There is absolutely no evidence that KP can still do it at test level, his record in his last few years was average, and he has a lot to prove if he wants to be considered. You can't pick people based on reputation mate

Trott went bac to div 1 last year scored 5 centuries in the second half of the season

KP is in the 2nd division for some reason, which is a much much worse standard, so he has to get a stack load of runs

You can't pick anybody on what they have done previously. I don't get your obsession with KP, its just one player, get over it.

Until he scores 4 day runs, its a non-starter, that is just fair, nothing to do with liking or disliking players.

Australia were quite happy to drop Michael Clarke if he wasn't 100pc fit, so KP has to prove he can do it again. He probably can, but he hasn't proved it yet.

Sweeper said:
Pietersen has to play. It's outrageous that a struggling side refuse to pick their best player. The Australians will be laughing their cocks off if he's not picked.
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I doubt it like, Peter Siddle has him on toast.
 
johnson said:
I doubt it like, Peter Siddle has him on toast.
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Siddle probably won't play. Notwithstanding, past history vs one bowler doesn't change the fact that he is the best England batsman.

It's such a shit English attitude to say "well he's come in and done alright, so we can't drop him even if the alternative is a better player". The Aussies have it spot on - "Sorry Mr Bailey, we realise that you scored 50 and captained the side to a thumping win, but Clarkey is back next week and we simply think he's a better player than you."
 
Sweeper said:
Siddle probably won't play. Notwithstanding, past history vs one bowler doesn't change the fact that he is the best England batsman.

It's such a shit English attitude to say "well he's come in and done alright, so we can't drop him even if the alternative is a better player". The Aussies have it spot on - "Sorry Mr Bailey, we realise that you scored 50 and captained the side to a thumping win, but Clarkey is back next week and we simply think he's a better player than you."
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This is so irrelevant, if you are referring to Ballance, he has done more than alright, he was absolutely class last summer. Australia would not drop somebody in that for in their test team, nobody would. "Come and done alright" is not remotely relevant, as much as you try and make it mate.

He also bats at 3, which KP does not, so if you want him back in the side, drop someone else.

Its pathetic logic mate, fair enough you want KP in the side, but don;t just make stuff up.

Should be talking up our young players, but people like you just seem to want to dismiss them at every opportunity, very very sad.

Good job we didn't have people like that when KP, Cook and co first came into the side.
 
johnson said:
This is so irrelevant, if you are referring to Ballance, he has done more than alright, he was absolutely class last summer. Australia would not drop somebody in that for in their test team, nobody would. "Come and done alright" is not remotely relevant, as much as you try and make it mate.

He also bats at 3, which KP does not, so if you want him back in the side, drop someone else.

Its pathetic logic mate, fair enough you want KP in the side, but don;t just make stuff up.

Should be talking up our young players, but people like you just seem to want to dismiss them at every opportunity, very very sad.

Good job we didn't have people like that when KP, Cook and co first came into the side.
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Playing at home against a dispirited Indian medium pace attack and scoring runs is doing alright. I'm not dismissing anyone and Balance will do well in time - maybe even this summer - but a blind man on a galloping horse can see that at this exact moment in time, and in the context of test cricket, Ballance (as well as a few others) cannot hold a candle to Pietersen.

When KP first came into the side, he belted 500 runs in four games away from home in SA. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
 
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Sweeper said:
Playing at home against a dispirited Indian medium pace attack and scoring runs is doing alright. I'm not dismissing anyone and Balance will do well in time - maybe even this summer - but a blind man on a galloping horse can see that at this exact moment in time, and in the context of test cricket, Ballance (as well as a few others) cannot hold a candle to Pietersen.

When KP first came into the side, he belted 500 runs in four games away from home in SA. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
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ahhhhhh OK, I forgot that series doesn't count, we will just have to dismiss all Smith and Warner's runs this winter then too

KP hasn't played any 4 day cricket in over a year, and his record his last few years was average at best

not sure what point you are trying to make, to even be considered he has to score 4 day runs .lets just bring Colly back then too

The point I am making is that you are totally wrong about some mythical English attitude of "he did nothing wrong we should leave him in".

That is not what has happened here at all, we are talking about a player who has excelled last summer. And Ballance is no favourite of mine, it could be any player who has done that well. On that basis Root could easily be dropped to early in his career. at some stage you have to back these lads when they should promise.

Also Ballance is of no relevance to KP, we should be talking about if you are dropping Root or Bell here.

Agree to disagree on this one I think.

Edit: Spelling appalling but was on my iPhone
 
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