stronger squad but have we improved our first XI?

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sksk3021 said:
A lot of positivity of the great escape lost. Need to get a couple of wins pretty quickly or things could turn sour again.
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Agree, sadly. The worst thing for me so far is we haven't looked liked winning any of our 3 league games.

Considering we played 2 relegation battlers and a man utd team burnley drew with. It doesn't exactly bode well.
 


Ki is a big miss but Colback, borini and Alonso weren't all that. Think we've replaced them.

The team seems to have more pace aswell which is a bonus.
 
sksk3021 said:
A lot of positivity of the great escape lost. Need to get a couple of wins pretty quickly or things could turn sour again.
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I'm inclined to agree, Colback & Bardsley had great seasons for us, bad management meant we had to let them go for nowt despite Gus saying how much he wanted them, couldn't get Borini back despit Gus saying how much we wanted him, didn't bother with Ki when of all the team he looked the best fit for what poyet wants to do..... its madness or incompetence
 
cronnyberg said:
Complete opposite for me, stronger first team, but weaker squad... I know a lot of people disagree though
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That's what I think too. I think we have a significantly stronger first team.

SAFC 2012 said:
alonso and van aanholt about the same
Ki is better than rodwell for our system
colback is better than gomez sadly
pantilimon is better than westwood
coates and cuellar about the same, both shite

Squad is stronger first 11 weaker
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Where would Ki be in our system? Poyet made it clear he didn't want him deep when he signed Bridcutt, then he didn't want him more advanced. Then he just didn't want him at all. We signed Rodwell for a specific position in Poyet's team, one that he thinks Rodwell is better suited than the alternatives to.
 
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chr1s1973 said:
That's what I think too. I think we have a significantly stronger first team.


Where would Ki be in our system? Poyet made it clear he didn't want him deep when he signed Bridcutt, then he didn't want him more advanced. Then he just didn't want him at all. We signed Rodwell for a specific position in Poyet's team, one that he thinks Rodwell is better suited than the alternatives to.
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Not sure how the first team can be significantly stronger it's probably marginal either way. Hopefully rodwell and Alvarez can step up to the plate but it's by no means certain
 
sksk3021 said:
Not sure how the first team can be significantly stronger it's probably marginal either way. Hopefully rodwell and Alvarez can step up to the plate but it's by no means certain
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I think we have to take Ki out of the equation as even if he was here, Poyet wouldn't pick him. The same as he didn't at the end of last season.

We've replaced stronger player for playing in almost every position than Borini. I suppose we now have to look at Buckley as the Borini replacement, which is clearly a step backwards. I see Rodwell as a replacement for Colback, which is a substantial improvement to me.

Now I think about it, I think the quality of our players is collectively better and that's the squad. But I can't say the squad is stronger as we are short on numbers at the back. The first team may not be stronger, or at least similar. i think Buckley is as less effective as Rodwell is an improvement.

Alvarez is the unknown factor. Which is exciting really.
 
Think positive man and get behind our team despite the let down and the crap were given.
Fletcher fit he can score goals if the chances are there, Giachi now got a year here and looking physically stronger,Rodwell getting fitter, Buckley an unknown quantity and fuck me we have signed an Argentinian international from Inter Milan with option to buy, Backbone of the team still there, Vito,JOS,Wes,Catts,AJ,Vergini.
Haway the lads.
 
chr1s1973 said:
I think we have to take Ki out of the equation as even if he was here, Poyet wouldn't pick him. The same as he didn't at the end of last season.

We've replaced stronger player for playing in almost every position than Borini. I suppose we now have to look at Buckley as the Borini replacement, which is clearly a step backwards. I see Rodwell as a replacement for Colback, which is a substantial improvement to me.

Now I think about it, I think the quality of our players is collectively better and that's the squad. But I can't say the squad is stronger as we are short on numbers at the back. The first team may not be stronger, or at least similar. i think Buckley is as less effective as Rodwell is an improvement.

Alvarez is the unknown factor. Which is exciting really.
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I don't see how you can discount ki he was probably our best player for a good part of the season. Hopefully Rodwell will have a bigger impact but It's by no means certain. Our midfield has plenty of question marks still, undoubtedly weaker in wide areas, hopefully we are slightly stronger in the middle.
The defence we are weaker in numbers and quality is probably fairly similar but with Brown and O'Shea another year older.
Forwards haven't really changed, although fletcher is fit, I'm not sure if that's a positive based on his displays so far.
I can't see much other than a struggle towards the lower end of the league. Probably be reasonably solid but not score many either.
 
Johnsafc said:
Ki is a big miss but Colback, borini and Alonso weren't all that. Think we've replaced them.

The team seems to have more pace aswell which is a bonus.
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Ki didn't play in April due to his bad knee, after which we drew with City, beat Chelsea, beat Cardiff, beat Man Utd and, beat West Brom to stay up, but let’s not let some facts get in the way of anything.

sksk3021 said:
I don't see how you can discount ki he was probably our best player for a good part of the season.
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Really? I don't think so.
 
Texasmac said:
Ki didn't play in April due to his bad knee, after which we drew with City, beat Chelsea, beat Cardiff, beat Man Utd and, beat West Brom to stay up, but let’s not let some facts get in the way of anything.



Really? I don't think so.
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He was class in December and January though. Him and Johnson were instrumental in our good run which was vital to give us any chance of staying up. Yes he tailed off but he still contributed a great deal to our survival.
 
sksk3021 said:
He was class in December and January though. Him and Johnson were instrumental in our good run which was vital to give us any chance of staying up. Yes he tailed off but he still contributed a great deal to our survival.
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He's a good player, wouldn't argue with that, but I just don't think one of the best, and could be missing in some cases. Think he was replaced more than as adequately.
 
Texasmac said:
He's a good player, wouldn't argue with that, but I just don't think one of the best, and could be missing in some cases. Think he was replaced more than as adequately.
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Hopefully but for me the jury is very much out on Rodwell, undoubtedly has a talent but nobody really knows if he can do it consistently at this level.
 
sksk3021 said:
Hopefully but for me the jury is very much out on Rodwell, undoubtedly has a talent but nobody really knows if he can do it consistently at this level.
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You are clearly a very nice young man; however, the jury isn't out at all. He was being kept out of a man city team by players worth 20,30,40,+ million, in our team last year; for example, our team was filled with players we couldn't give away, there was no pact about not discussing contracts, we weren't offering and nobody was wanting to buy.

We have had a horrible squad for 2 years solid, now it's turning itself around, we have players who are better than championship and bottom 4. We even have 1 or 2 that aren't out of place in a top half team.
 
sksk3021 said:
I don't see how you can discount ki he was probably our best player for a good part of the season. Hopefully Rodwell will have a bigger impact but It's by no means certain. Our midfield has plenty of question marks still, undoubtedly weaker in wide areas, hopefully we are slightly stronger in the middle.
The defence we are weaker in numbers and quality is probably fairly similar but with Brown and O'Shea another year older.
Forwards haven't really changed, although fletcher is fit, I'm not sure if that's a positive based on his displays so far.
I can't see much other than a struggle towards the lower end of the league. Probably be reasonably solid but not score many either.
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As I say though, you have to accept the manager and his system. Under this manager and within this system, Poyet chose not to use him and if he was here, he'd be on the bench at best.

I loved Ki, I thought he was great, particularly when he was playing deep and coming forward. He was positive, didn't waste too many passes and had ability on the ball as well as gave us a set piece option. Many, rightly, thought he was too weak defensively and sometimes not strong enough on the edge of our own box. There was also questions about his mentality which dogged him since his Laudrup days. So based on that assessment which Poyet clearly shared, once we'd signed Bridcutt, Poyet tried him in all kinds of different positions and none really worked.

So I discount Ki as what we saw in him, Poyet didn't think he could use. You could say Gardner offered something to a squad and something different to what we have, but if you don't play the right team and him in the right way he'd might as well not be there either. That's why he was generally so ineffective for us.
 
chr1s1973 said:
As I say though, you have to accept the manager and his system. Under this manager and within this system, Poyet chose not to use him and if he was here, he'd be on the bench at best.

I loved Ki, I thought he was great, particularly when he was playing deep and coming forward. He was positive, didn't waste too many passes and had ability on the ball as well as gave us a set piece option. Many, rightly, thought he was too weak defensively and sometimes not strong enough on the edge of our own box. There was also questions about his mentality which dogged him since his Laudrup days. So based on that assessment which Poyet clearly shared, once we'd signed Bridcutt, Poyet tried him in all kinds of different positions and none really worked.

So I discount Ki as what we saw in him, Poyet didn't think he could use. You could say Gardner offered something to a squad and something different to what we have, but if you don't play the right team and him in the right way he'd might as well not be there either. That's why he was generally so ineffective for us.
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I'm not disputing that Poyet didn't want him. He played and contributed under Poyet and whether he has been replaced with better is questionable.

Texasmac said:
You are clearly a very nice young man; however, the jury isn't out at all. He was being kept out of a man city team by players worth 20,30,40,+ million, in our team last year; for example, our team was filled with players we couldn't give away, there was no pact about not discussing contracts, we weren't offering and nobody was wanting to buy.

We have had a horrible squad for 2 years solid, now it's turning itself around, we have players who are better than championship and bottom 4. We even have 1 or 2 that aren't out of place in a top half team.
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He averages less than 10 league starts a season over his career. I think he will be a good addition but it's not certain.
 
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We get it arse about face as usual.

You should strengthen the first team, meaning the existing players then get pushed out and become squad fillers, but no.

That way you improve like.
 
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